Are you Going to Heaven?

[Ben Masada]

Presuambly you're Jewish? If so isn't this a bit of a redundant argument as you don't believe Jesus was the Messiah?

You are absolutely right. I can't believe that Jesus was the Messiah because the Messiah cannot be the Messiah. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we expect to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain alive forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) I am not alone with this thought. If you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save
His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is; the Anointed One of the Lord.

Regardless the Temple was a HOLY place where the prescense of God resided. (The same was true with the Ark of the Covenant that was kept in the 'most holy') Solomon initially built it only for it to be utterly destroyed by the Babylonians. The Temple was again rebuilt after a faithful remnant returned from Babylon to Jerusalem only for the Temple to again by desecrated by the ruling Greeks who sacrified to their gods in the Temple which spawed the Maccabean revolt. The Temple was re-dedicated hence the celebration of Hanukkah which was inaugurated by the Pharisee's to celebrate the inauguration.
The Temple featured heavily in Jewish Prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures as well as being of vital importance in religious worship to the Jews. So its importance should not be understated. Thus Jesus righteous indignation at the way the money changers had A) Not only triviliased the Mosaic Law as well as the Law Covenant between Abraham and God, but B) Also profaned Gods name, blasphemed Gods name, and treated God with complete contempt with the illegal practrices they carried out in Gods temple. So in my opinion Jesus action was warranted and certainly blameless.

Sorry Son-of-Caleb, but I don't see the connection between this last text with the Messiah being Jesus or the People. By the way, the remnant that returned from Babylon was the Jewish People. This that the Temple was rebuilt and destroyed again by the Romans only responds to the fact that the blessings of God are conditional as long as the People remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Sorry Son-of-Caleb, but I don't see the connection between this last text with the Messiah being Jesus or the People. By the way, the remnant that returned from Babylon was the Jewish People. This that the Temple
was rebuild and destroyed again by the Romans only respond to the fact that the blessings of God are conditional as long as the People remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Yes i know the remnant that returned were Jewish. It was under Cyrus decree that they returned to rebuild the Temple. But my point was the importance of the Temple hence Jesus actions regarding the money changers.

I'm not going to get into a discussion with you on the primacy of the Jews as thats pointless from my point of view. But it should be noted that twice the Temple was destroyed for the Jewish peoples disobedience. The first time in 607BCE. The second time in 70CE by the Romans.
After the first destruction God allowed the temple to be rebuilt. The second time all that was left is the so called 'wailing wall' that has stood for nearly 2000 years. If lineage is all that matters as in being a Jew (incidently of which no Jew today can prove their lineage as all the lineages were destroyed by the Romans when they destroyed the Temple) then it seems to me your god has forsaken you as 2000 years later you're still waiting for your promised Messiah and apparent liberation. At no time in the Jews history did they ever have to wait for millenias for liberation.

 

[Ben Masada]

Yes i know the remnant that returned were Jewish. It was under Cyrus decree that they returned to rebuild the Temple. But my point was the importance of the Temple hence Jesus actions regarding the money changers.

I'm not going to get into a discussion with you on the primacy of the Jews as thats pointless from my point of view. But it should be noted that twice the Temple was destroyed for the Jewish peoples disobedience. The first time in 607BCE. The second time in 70CE by the Romans. After the first destruction God allowed the temple to be rebuilt. The second time all that was left is the so called 'wailing wall' that has stood for nearly 2000 years. If lineage is all that matters as in being a Jew (incidently of which no Jew today can prove their lineage as all the lineages were destroyed by the Romans when they destroyed the Temple) then it seems to me your god has forsaken you as 2000 years later you're still waiting for your promised Messiah and apparent liberation. At no time in the Jews history did they ever have to wait for millenias for liberation.

Do you know something SonOfCaleb, I am not at all on a hurry for the rebuilding of the Temple. First and foremost because I am 100% sure that the sacrifices will return as they always do and, carrying with them the roots of idolatry. Then, Prophet Jeremiah said that the Lord never commanded that sacrifices of animals be part of the religion of Israe. Moses had to use of Pichuach Nephesh in order to allow them. If you don't know what Pichuach Nephesh is, it is a policy in Jewish tradition that allows a commandment to be broken so that another more important be obeyed. HaShem had commanded Moses to go down to Egypt and effect the Exodus of the people and back into the Promise Land. So, for obvious reasons Moses had to add the sacrifices to make that easier to happen. So, the sacrifices had become a commandment of man, not of God. (Jeremiah 7:22) So, IMHO, it is not God's will that we rebuild our Temple. It would be destroyed over again in no time. So, I prefer to listen to the Almighty. To tell you the Truth, we don't need them anymore. The things the sacrifices used to point to have happened already. To allow them again would be irrelevant therefore.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Do you know something SonOfCaleb, I am not at all on a hurry for the rebuilding of the Temple. First and foremost because I am 100% sure that the sacrifices will return as they always do and, carrying with them the roots of idolatry. Then, Prophet Jeremiah said that the Lord never commanded that sacrifices of animals be part of the religion of Israe. Moses had to use of Pichuach Nephesh in order to allow them. If you don't know what Pichuach Nephesh is, it is a policy in Jewish tradition that allows a commandment to be broken so that another more important be obeyed. HaShem had commanded Moses to go down to Egypt and effect the Exodus of the people and back into the Promise Land. So, for obvious reasons Moses had to add the sacrifices to make that easier to happen. So, the sacrifices had become a commandment of man, not of God. (Jeremiah 7:22) So, IMHO, it is not God's will that we rebuild our Temple. It would be destroyed over again in no time. So, I prefer to listen to the Almighty. To tell you the Truth, we don't need them anymore. The things the sacrifices used to point to have happened already. To allow them again would be irrelevant therefore.

Just as a point of note animal sacrifices go back as far as pre-deluvian times. Abel sacrificed the finest of his flock to God. Likewise Noah when he came out of the Ark also sacrificed on an alter to God. Faithful Job who knew nothing about the Mosaic Law, who lived long before Moses birth also sacrificed on an alter to God. So did the patriarchs of the Jews Abraham Issac and Jacob. Therefore it was understood from the earliest times the importance of sacrifice and the shedding of blood for atonement of sins which Jesus as the Messiah foreshadowed.

Regardless though the point i was trying to emphasize previously was the importance of the Temple to the Jewish people not only literally but also later symbolically in Christianity. As the Temple also foreshadowed Jesus. In fact Jesus used himself as an illustration to the Pharisees when he said in John 2:19 “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
Either way and to my previous point to you God has done nothing for the so called 'fleshly' Jewish people for close to 2000 years. Never in the history of the Jews has God ever forsaken his 'chosen' people for so long a time. So if you still believe you are his chosen people then as i said earlier your god has forsaken you.

 

[Ben Masada]

Just as a point of note animal sacrifices go back as far as pre-deluvian times. Abel sacrificed the finest of his flock to God. Likewise Noah when he came out of the Ark also sacrificed on an alter to God. Faithful Job who knew nothing about the Mosaic Law, who lived long before Moses birth also sacrificed on an alter to God. So did the patriarchs of the Jews Abraham Issac and Jacob. Therefore it was understood from the earliest times the importance of sacrifice and the shedding of blood for atonement of sins which Jesus as the Messiah foreshadowed.

What are you implying SonOfCaleb, that the Prophets of the Most High were wrong? I think they knew a little more than you and I do. Don't you think so? BTW, did you read Jeremiah 7:22? I prefer just as Jesus did. Did you read Luke 16:29-31? Jesus implied with his parable of the Richman and Lazarus that, to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. I am glad to share this text with you, especially because it is in the NT.

Regardless though the point i was trying to emphasize previously was the importance of the Temple to the Jewish people not only literally but also later symbolically in Christianity. As the Temple also foreshadowed Jesus. In fact Jesus used himself as an illustration to the Pharisees when he said in John 2:19 “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

The Temple was always very important to us. If not by any other reason, by representing the symbol of Jewish identity. Now, that the Temple foreshadowed Jesus it is yours until you prove what you are saying with a quote or two. The NT claim that Jesus is responsible for that text: "Break down this Temple and then
I'll raise it up in three days," brings nothing but the sense of resurrection. Therefore, the expression was set in Jesus' mouth by Paul, the man who fabricated the idea of resurrection. If you find it too hard to believe it, read II Tim. 2:8. He himself said that Jesus resurrected according to his gospel. Paul's gospel. Why it could not have been mentioned by Jesus? Because Jesus was a loyal Jew who lived according to the Law and the Prophets. He would not contradict II Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14 and Job 7:9.

Either way and to my previous point to you God has done nothing for the so called 'fleshly' Jewish people for close to 2000 years. Never in the history of the Jews has God ever forsaken his 'chosen' people for so long a time. So if you still believe you are his chosen people then as i said earlier your god has forsaken you.

What do you mean, "God has done nothing for us during 2,000 years? Where were we for almost 2,000 long years? In the Galut. Where are we today? Back in the Land of Israel. Do you think we have done that ourselves? We have been only the means by which the Lord has worked on us. And for the Gentiles, what have the Lord done
for them during these 2,000 long years? Never think again that the Lord has forsaken Israel! "Does says the Lord which gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divides the sea when the waves roar; The Lord of hosts is His name. If those ordinances depart from before Me, says the Lord, than the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever. "Before Me forever" never forget it. Thus, says the Lord: "If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, says the Lord. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

 

[SonOfCaleb]

What are you implying SonOfCaleb, that the Prophets of the Most High were wrong? I think they knew a little more than you and I do. Don't you think so? BTW, did you read Jeremiah 7:22? I prefer just as Jesus did. Did you read Luke 16:29-31? Jesus implied with his parable of the Richman and Lazarus that, to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. I am glad to share this text with you, especially because it is in the NT

We seem to be talking cross purposes? As none of this has anything to do with your original point that i responded to which was the importance of blood sacrifice, its significance to the Temple and Israelite worship in antiquity which in my opinion you understate.

What do you mean, "God has done nothing for us during 2,000 years? Where were we for almost 2,000 long years? In the Galut. Where are we today? Back in the Land of Israel. Do you think we have done that ourselves? We have been only the means by which the Lord has worked on us. And for the Gentiles, what have the Lord done
for them during these 2,000 long years? Never think again that the Lord has forsaken Israel! "Does says the Lord which gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divides the sea when the waves roar; The Lord of hosts is His name. If those ordinances depart from before Me, says the Lord, than the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever. "Before Me forever" never forget it. Thus, says the Lord: "If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, says the Lord. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

I don't agree. The current nation state of Israel is entirely a political creation which has nothing to do with Gods will.

 

[Ben Masada]

We seem to be talking cross purposes? As none of this has anything to do with your original point that i responded to which was the importance of blood sacrifice, its significance to the Temple and Israelite worship in antiquity which in my opinion you understate.

I don't agree. The current nation state of Israel is entirely a political creation which has nothing to do with Gods will.

This is very common among us all; to start a thread and soon found to be talking cross purposes. Blood sacrifices (of animals) had indeed become very important to Moses who had used of Pichuach Nephesh to establish them in order to ease the Exodus from Mitzraim but, when the blood sacrifices had served the purpose of Idolatry among the people, the Lord had found appropriate to explain to His Prophets that to elect sacrifices into a commandment, was the work of man, not of God. (Jer. 7:22) The Lord had simply endorsed the decision of Moses because to obey God's command to Moses to effect the Exodus was more important than to legislate on a religious practice that would end up even in human sacrifices.

Now, with regards to Israel of today, where did you get the idea that it has nothing to do with God's will, the anti-Semites? Probably. It has been no different from ancient Israel. Not speaking about all the People but, there are more today who live by the Law and the Prophets than at the time of Jesus or even among ancient Israel. HaShem has fought our wars no less than before. If you find hard to believe it, read about the wars of modern Israel since we are back. We have had four major wars and miraculously succeeded victoriously. What do you think, that we are fighting against God's will? Think again.

 

[Ktoyou]

Did you know that to be a Catholic is the same as to being a Christian? I have recently read "The Summa Theologica" by the famous Catholic Theologian Thomas Aquinas and he says that to go to Heaven, you have to be a Catholic. Do you agree with him? If you don't, you won't go to Heaven.

Thomas Aquinas, like all people, is right on some things, such as sins and virtues, but wrong about the church. "Priest" is evokes a person centered, rather than Christ centered conscience.
There is another difference. Most regular Christians are not homos.

 

[Ben Masada]

Thomas Aquinas, like all people, is right on some things, such as sins and virtues, but wrong about the church. "Priest" is evokes a person centered, rather than Christ centered conscience.
There is another difference. Most regular Christians are not homos.

Thomas Aquinas, a Catholic Theologian was wrong about the church! Sorry Ktoyou, but you are being too obvious if you are not a Catholic.

 

[oatmeal]

Purpose: Wake up the sinner who thinks they are a good person and that good deeds will outway the bad. Bring a conviction of sin. Wake up the believer who has sin as a practice. Wake up the unsaved to the condition they are in. Remind those who walk in victory over sin of what they were saved from. ALL to the power and glory of Jesus Christ.

You think you are going to heaven?Take this test. In taking the test do it in the light of the principle of the question being asked and apply it to your own life circumstances. Lust: (married) persons: Have you had sexual or inappropriate relations with a person you were not married to, while married to someone else? Have you had sexual lustful thoughts( fantasies) of desire toward a person when you looked at them while married to someone else? Looked to long at, because a person of the opposite sex was attractive or good looking? Decided you could look as long as you don't touch? Married a person who got divorced apart from Gods permission? If yes to any of those God says you are guilty of adultery.

(to the unmarried or ((married person pertaining to their past before marriage): Have you had sexual or inappropriate relations with a person you were not married to? Have you had sexual lustful thoughts (fantasies) of desire toward a person when you looked at them ? Looked to long at, because a person of the opposite sex was attractive or good looking? If yes you are guilty of fornication.

Have you ever committed morally questionable acts and conduct toward others or yourself? Ever enjoy "a good" dirty joke?Then God says you are guilty of uncleanness.Played magic games? Visited a psychic or medium or palm reading? Had your fortune told? Followed a horoscope? Played with a ouija board? Read books with topics of magic, wizards and witchcraft? Followed tv shows of people doing strange and paranormal/supernatural things? Witchcraft? Occult? Twilight? Harry Potter ? Bewitched? If yes to any of those you according to God are unclean.

You ever committed lustful or sexually offensive actions toward others such as hitting on someone with a sexually explicit pick up line or publicly showed actions in order to attract sexual attention? Posed in a picture as to show sexy? Walked or carried your body, or dressed to attract sexual attention? Hows your beach swim attire? If yes to any God says you are guilty of lewdness.

Do you put your trust for your health finances and well being in anyone or anything other then God alone? Do you put anyone or anything first foremost and greatest place and part of your life other then God? Do you devote or dedicate your time, effort, ability and skill to anyone or anything other then God or what is of Him?(that includes yourself) Do you esteem, love, give devotion or time over to things that are not Godly or approved of by Him? If yes then you are guilty of the sin of idolatry.

Ever do drugs? Legal or other? Smoke? If yes then you are guilty before God of sorcery.

Ever have a serious dislike or distaste with actions or feelings of being hostile or seriously unfriendly toward someone or anyone even if a enemy or opponent? If yes you are guilty of hatred.

Really ever get angry with a person? If yes then you are before God guilty of murder. Ever shoot anyone even in a war? Or in self defense? Same guilt before God. Murder.

Ever had strife debate or controversy with a person with animosity wrong intentions or dislike toward them? Sue anyone? Take them to court? Argue with ill will? Get in a fight? If yes then you are guilty of the sin of contentions.

Ever not like the fact that someone is enjoying success or an advantage like being paid or given more or got attention for his or her accomplishment more then someone you thought deserved it, like yourself? Or even wished you got it or had it and not, or instead of, that person? Wish you got that present or money that so and so got given instead of them? If yes you are guilty of jealousies. If you do these things with covetousness of wanting of the advantages successes and wealth then the guilt of envy comes.

Ever lash out in anger physically or verbally? punch a wall or beat a person our animal or go into a verbal shouting yelling and screaming fit, have road rage or anger at another driver or person who upset you and you let them know through your actions or in some way that you are mad angry and upset? If yes then you are guilty of out bursts of wrath.

Ever wish everyone would recognize how good you are and wanted your own personal agenda to be the goal of everyone around you regardless of others? Ever work hard to get accomplished the thing you have always wanted without consideration to the cost of others around you? Career goal that was sacrificed greatly for even if by stealing time or hurting those around you? You are guilty of selfish ambitions.

Do you regularly get in disagreements and arguments and be that person who certain topics can never be discussed with but you enjoy that? Political and social issues that you argue about and take a stubborn stand on your views and no one better present anything that opposes it or else? If yes you are guilty of dissensions.

Do you hold beliefs or ideas or thoughts that you believe are true, that are contrary to God and His word? Example do you believe in evolution or other "scientific" explanations of biblical accounts, views, world events along with ethical and moral conduct of society? Be it historical or present? If yes you are guilty of heresies.

Ever get drunk? Take part in a party with loud music dancing games food fun drinking getting high making out with all the actions and activities of sexual perversion drunkenness ect? If yes you are guilty of the sin of drunkenness and revelries.

Ever tell a lie?little white lie? Half truth? Explain something in order to give the wrong perception or impression to deceive or keep someone believing an untruth? If yes you are guilty of being a liar.

Ever steal anything? Take anything that did not belong to you without asking because if you did, someone might object, not wanting you to do so? If yes you are guilty of stealing.

Ever lie tell a half truth or present a obscure view about someone you knew to someone else as to cause that person you lied about trouble or to look bad and win people over to your point of view about that person? Does that sound like gossip? You are guilty of false witness.

Ever look at someone’s house and want it? How about wanting some ones wife or husband? Wanting some ones laborer who contracted with them to break that contract and come work for you? Wish you had someone else's horse cows chickens cat or dog? lawn or farm tractor? Truck car boat RV sport utility vehicle? Wanting a painting or musical instrument that is one of a kind or exclusively made but belongs to someone else?If you did any of these type of things with a seriousness then you are guilty of covetousness.

Ever take the Lord's name in vain? Use it to curse or swear? Even if someone scared you and in surprise expression say oh Jes@$&$? You are guilty of blasphemy.

Ever want to exert your will over someone else? Ever wish you were the boss so you could show them a thing or to? Ever boast about your abilities and achievements as to present yourself as being someone smart and great or better than others? Ever inflate your achievements to seem greater then what they actually are? Ever try to put yourself at the top and make it seem like your most valuable one in the group as to not be laid off, fired, thought badly about or looked down on or excluded and rejected? Guilt of selfishness and pride of life belongs to you.

To the person without God: You said no to all the above and say that you have not done any of those things? Or that your good deeds will out weigh the bad? If yes you are guilty of self righteousness and lying. Hypocrite! Look at our own (good part) justice system. Would a good judge acquit a man who was a horrific murderer ( go ahead and create a really bad crime rap sheet list in your own mind) just because he donated large sums of money to charity, helped the poor, saved some one from drowning, doing all that now and then to balance out his crime? To the person "with God" but have any of the above as a regular thing in your life but deny it you are guilty of lying and hypocrisy with self-righteousness.

You said yes to most of the above and are without God? Here then is the title you have.

adulterator Fornicating unclean lewd idolater sorcerer hatful Murderer contentious jealous envying wrathful selfish dissentious* heretical drunken reveler lying stealing false witness ( slanderer) covetous selfish prideful blasphemer

And you are going to stand before a sinless perfect pure holy righteous God and expect Him to let you into heaven?Go ahead and add arrogant to your title. Humans are not worthy to be saved with absolutely no value in or of themselves to ever attract God to love or save them. Humans are to Him of themselves deserving of the very depths of hell with all it's endless horrors and tortures along with all the other demonic creatures and beings who rebelled against Him because they are as them! A rebellious creation who loves the sin they are in and are always pron to do evil! God is so righteous so holy so perfect that He cannot and will not tolerate warm up to be desensitized about or talked into permitting sin. He demands of His creation that they walk before Him and be perfect! If they won't do it then the place prearranged for that sort is where they will go. It is not His desire that they go, but they of their own will not to obey and therefore putting themselves under His wrath and judgment. God is not a humanist. He is not begging you and pleading with you to stop sinning repent, get a new nature to be made perfect by the blood of His Son Jesus Christ who died on a cross and three days later He raised Him from the dead, and by His blood, atonement can be made for your sins. No instead it’s a gentle invitation to all, that whoever will hear can receive forgiveness for their sin and be changed from being a sinner to saved. Anyone who will believe and receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior can be made into a new person and be the perfection through Christ, the work of The Holy Spirit, that God demands. It's the pure Holy blood of Jesus Christ that God shed for the forgiveness of sin that enables you to be made into a new person free from sin and it's desires. You must be born again! Without it you can never be free from sin. With it you will not continue to commit as a practice, sin.

(The person who has sin as a practice in their lives, meaning as a regular occurrence of normal needs to repent and get right with God and do what it takes to live a life of victory over sin)

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8 NKJV)

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 NKJV)

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. (1 John 2:15-17 NKJV)

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 NKJV)

Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18 NKJV)

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was. (2 Timothy 3:1-9 NKJV)

knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (apostle Paul speaking in 1 Timothy.)

But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all. (Colossians 3:8-11 NKJV)

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. (Jude 1:5-23 NKJV)

But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. (Revelation 21:27 NKJV)

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:14-17 NKJV)

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, uI will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ (Jesus Christ) Revelation 3

All sin is sin.

Did Jesus come to save sinners or to condemn them?

Do saved people go to heaven?

Can Jesus save them or not?

Who does the saving? The sinner? or Jesus Christ?

 

[dontaskmeidontknow]

no I am not going to the heaven you are going too.and this should be a problem for you ..the law,the heavenly places... is that what this is about, i hope not.

 

[BoyStan]

I am going to heaven because God the Father chose me from eternity to be His child through faith in Christ; then God the Son,Jesus Christ, himself bore my sins in his own body on the cross; then the Holy Spirit called me. and opened my heart to believe in Christ. I am certain of heaven and glory entirely on the finished work of Christ. By grace alone through alone in Christ alone

 

[Bick]

I'm not going to heaven when I die: it will be after I meet the Lord in the air, and then be caught away to the heavenlies.
Ref: 1 Cor. 15:51-57.

 

[oatmeal]

Whether or not I did any or all of those things I am still going to heaven. Your list of sins is irrelevant. That Jesus Christ loved me to give himself for me is what is relevant.

 

[12jtartar]

dontaskmeidontknow,
Many people who claim to be Christian believe that they are going to heaven. Most of these people do not know that the way to heaven is very exclusive, not for all Christians.
The Kingdom of God, with Jesus as the appointed King of that Kingdom, will rule from heaven, along with a group of 144,000, who will be co-rulers with him, Romans 8:12-17, Revelation 20:4-6. Notice these ones called Saints, and Holy ones take part in the First Resurrection, which the Second death has no power over, Revelation 2:11. Notice also that these ones who are Sealed, are distinguished from the Great Crowd of other Christians, who live through the Great Tribulation here on earth, Revelation 7:3,4, 9,14. These that go to heaven are going to judge the ones on earth, Revelation 2:26,27. The Bible says that these Holy ones, Saints follow Jesus wherever he goes, purchased from the earth, Revelation 14:1-5.
These that go to heaven will be Kings and Priests, in the Kingdom. Now, think about this; this is a Kingdom, which has, both Kings and also subjects of that Kingdom. All Christians cannot be Kings and Priests!! Who would they be Kings over and as Priests, who would the intercede for??
The truth is, most Christians will live forever on earth, which is God's purpose from the beginning, Genesis 1:26-28, Isaiah 45:18, Psalms 37:29, Revelation 21:1-6. The New heaven and new earth does not mean a new globe, but a new system of things where The Kingdom ruling will be Jesus and the 144,000, instead of Satan and hid demons, and the new earth will be made up of only people who love God and their neighbors, a new earth.
Some have a heavenly calling, Hebrews 3:1,2, which their citizenship is in heaven, Philippians 3:20,21, but most people will live on earth, Isaiah 45:18, Psalms 37:29, Proverbs 2:21,22.


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[patrick jane]

Wrong jtartar

 

[TOL User]

Purpose: Wake up the sinner who thinks they are a good person and that good deeds will outway the bad. Bring a conviction of sin. Wake up the believer who has sin as a practice. Wake up the unsaved to the condition they are in. Remind those who walk in victory over sin of what they were saved from. ALL to the power and glory of Jesus Christ.

You think you are going to heaven?Take this test. In taking the test do it in the light of the principle of the question being asked and apply it to your own life circumstances. Lust: (married) persons: Have you had sexual or inappropriate relations with a person you were not married to, while married to someone else? Have you had sexual lustful thoughts( fantasies) of desire toward a person when you looked at them while married to someone else? Looked to long at, because a person of the opposite sex was attractive or good looking? Decided you could look as long as you don't touch? Married a person who got divorced apart from Gods permission? If yes to any of those God says you are guilty of adultery.

(to the unmarried or ((married person pertaining to their past before marriage): Have you had sexual or inappropriate relations with a person you were not married to? Have you had sexual lustful thoughts (fantasies) of desire toward a person when you looked at them ? Looked to long at, because a person of the opposite sex was attractive or good looking? If yes you are guilty of fornication.

Have you ever committed morally questionable acts and conduct toward others or yourself? Ever enjoy "a good" dirty joke?Then God says you are guilty of uncleanness.Played magic games? Visited a psychic or medium or palm reading? Had your fortune told? Followed a horoscope? Played with a ouija board? Read books with topics of magic, wizards and witchcraft? Followed tv shows of people doing strange and paranormal/supernatural things? Witchcraft? Occult? Twilight? Harry Potter ? Bewitched? If yes to any of those you according to God are unclean.

You ever committed lustful or sexually offensive actions toward others such as hitting on someone with a sexually explicit pick up line or publicly showed actions in order to attract sexual attention? Posed in a picture as to show sexy? Walked or carried your body, or dressed to attract sexual attention? Hows your beach swim attire? If yes to any God says you are guilty of lewdness.

Do you put your trust for your health finances and well being in anyone or anything other then God alone? Do you put anyone or anything first foremost and greatest place and part of your life other then God? Do you devote or dedicate your time, effort, ability and skill to anyone or anything other then God or what is of Him?(that includes yourself) Do you esteem, love, give devotion or time over to things that are not Godly or approved of by Him? If yes then you are guilty of the sin of idolatry.

Ever do drugs? Legal or other? Smoke? If yes then you are guilty before God of sorcery.

Ever have a serious dislike or distaste with actions or feelings of being hostile or seriously unfriendly toward someone or anyone even if a enemy or opponent? If yes you are guilty of hatred.

Really ever get angry with a person? If yes then you are before God guilty of murder. Ever shoot anyone even in a war? Or in self defense? Same guilt before God. Murder.

Ever had strife debate or controversy with a person with animosity wrong intentions or dislike toward them? Sue anyone? Take them to court? Argue with ill will? Get in a fight? If yes then you are guilty of the sin of contentions.

Ever not like the fact that someone is enjoying success or an advantage like being paid or given more or got attention for his or her accomplishment more then someone you thought deserved it, like yourself? Or even wished you got it or had it and not, or instead of, that person? Wish you got that present or money that so and so got given instead of them? If yes you are guilty of jealousies. If you do these things with covetousness of wanting of the advantages successes and wealth then the guilt of envy comes.

Ever lash out in anger physically or verbally? punch a wall or beat a person our animal or go into a verbal shouting yelling and screaming fit, have road rage or anger at another driver or person who upset you and you let them know through your actions or in some way that you are mad angry and upset? If yes then you are guilty of out bursts of wrath.

Ever wish everyone would recognize how good you are and wanted your own personal agenda to be the goal of everyone around you regardless of others? Ever work hard to get accomplished the thing you have always wanted without consideration to the cost of others around you? Career goal that was sacrificed greatly for even if by stealing time or hurting those around you? You are guilty of selfish ambitions.

Do you regularly get in disagreements and arguments and be that person who certain topics can never be discussed with but you enjoy that? Political and social issues that you argue about and take a stubborn stand on your views and no one better present anything that opposes it or else? If yes you are guilty of dissensions.

Do you hold beliefs or ideas or thoughts that you believe are true, that are contrary to God and His word? Example do you believe in evolution or other "scientific" explanations of biblical accounts, views, world events along with ethical and moral conduct of society? Be it historical or present? If yes you are guilty of heresies.

Ever get drunk? Take part in a party with loud music dancing games food fun drinking getting high making out with all the actions and activities of sexual perversion drunkenness ect? If yes you are guilty of the sin of drunkenness and revelries.

Ever tell a lie?little white lie? Half truth? Explain something in order to give the wrong perception or impression to deceive or keep someone believing an untruth? If yes you are guilty of being a liar.

Ever steal anything? Take anything that did not belong to you without asking because if you did, someone might object, not wanting you to do so? If yes you are guilty of stealing.

Ever lie tell a half truth or present a obscure view about someone you knew to someone else as to cause that person you lied about trouble or to look bad and win people over to your point of view about that person? Does that sound like gossip? You are guilty of false witness.

Ever look at someone’s house and want it? How about wanting some ones wife or husband? Wanting some ones laborer who contracted with them to break that contract and come work for you? Wish you had someone else's horse cows chickens cat or dog? lawn or farm tractor? Truck car boat RV sport utility vehicle? Wanting a painting or musical instrument that is one of a kind or exclusively made but belongs to someone else?If you did any of these type of things with a seriousness then you are guilty of covetousness.

Ever take the Lord's name in vain? Use it to curse or swear? Even if someone scared you and in surprise expression say oh Jes@$&$? You are guilty of blasphemy.

Ever want to exert your will over someone else? Ever wish you were the boss so you could show them a thing or to? Ever boast about your abilities and achievements as to present yourself as being someone smart and great or better than others? Ever inflate your achievements to seem greater then what they actually are? Ever try to put yourself at the top and make it seem like your most valuable one in the group as to not be laid off, fired, thought badly about or looked down on or excluded and rejected? Guilt of selfishness and pride of life belongs to you.

To the person without God: You said no to all the above and say that you have not done any of those things? Or that your good deeds will out weigh the bad? If yes you are guilty of self righteousness and lying. Hypocrite! Look at our own (good part) justice system. Would a good judge acquit a man who was a horrific murderer ( go ahead and create a really bad crime rap sheet list in your own mind) just because he donated large sums of money to charity, helped the poor, saved some one from drowning, doing all that now and then to balance out his crime? To the person "with God" but have any of the above as a regular thing in your life but deny it you are guilty of lying and hypocrisy with self-righteousness.

You said yes to most of the above and are without God? Here then is the title you have.

adulterator Fornicating unclean lewd idolater sorcerer hatful Murderer contentious jealous envying wrathful selfish dissentious* heretical drunken reveler lying stealing false witness ( slanderer) covetous selfish prideful blasphemer

And you are going to stand before a sinless perfect pure holy righteous God and expect Him to let you into heaven?Go ahead and add arrogant to your title. Humans are not worthy to be saved with absolutely no value in or of themselves to ever attract God to love or save them. Humans are to Him of themselves deserving of the very depths of hell with all it's endless horrors and tortures along with all the other demonic creatures and beings who rebelled against Him because they are as them! A rebellious creation who loves the sin they are in and are always pron to do evil! God is so righteous so holy so perfect that He cannot and will not tolerate warm up to be desensitized about or talked into permitting sin. He demands of His creation that they walk before Him and be perfect! If they won't do it then the place prearranged for that sort is where they will go. It is not His desire that they go, but they of their own will not to obey and therefore putting themselves under His wrath and judgment. God is not a humanist. He is not begging you and pleading with you to stop sinning repent, get a new nature to be made perfect by the blood of His Son Jesus Christ who died on a cross and three days later He raised Him from the dead, and by His blood, atonement can be made for your sins. No instead it’s a gentle invitation to all, that whoever will hear can receive forgiveness for their sin and be changed from being a sinner to saved. Anyone who will believe and receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior can be made into a new person and be the perfection through Christ, the work of The Holy Spirit, that God demands. It's the pure Holy blood of Jesus Christ that God shed for the forgiveness of sin that enables you to be made into a new person free from sin and it's desires. You must be born again! Without it you can never be free from sin. With it you will not continue to commit as a practice, sin.

(The person who has sin as a practice in their lives, meaning as a regular occurrence of normal needs to repent and get right with God and do what it takes to live a life of victory over sin)

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8 NKJV)

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 NKJV)

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. (1 John 2:15-17 NKJV)

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 NKJV)

Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18 NKJV)

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was. (2 Timothy 3:1-9 NKJV)

knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (apostle Paul speaking in 1 Timothy.)

But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all. (Colossians 3:8-11 NKJV)

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. (Jude 1:5-23 NKJV)

But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. (Revelation 21:27 NKJV)

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:14-17 NKJV)

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, uI will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ (Jesus Christ) Revelation 3

Everyone will go to Heaven.. Everyone will stand before the Judgement seat of Christ. But not all might enter into His Joy. Some might remain on the outside of His Kingdom.

 

[intojoy]

Heaven is not the final abode of man. It is a temporal place for the saved before the kingdom. Come on man!


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[Jerry Shugart]

Heaven is not the final abode of man. It is a temporal place for the saved before the kingdom. Come on man!

Is that what Arnold taught you?

 

[intojoy]

Is that what Arnold taught you?

You don’t want none of this


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