ARCHIVE: Lying is never righteous!

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Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Originally posted by Knight
Wow....

Every now and then you get into one of these debates and before you know it the opposition has tossed in so much obfuscation its tough to tell where you really are!
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This was said back on page 10 and needed to be said again....
 
J

Jaltus

New member
How about BDAG for the definition?

ARNEOMAI
Page 132:

to state something is not true

to disclaim association with person or event (nonverbal must take an object)
 
J

Jaltus

New member
Wow, Knight's quote really fits your position.

You still have not dealt with the verses in question, you keep shuttling off to side verses and assuming that proves your point. Sorry, how about dealing with the text I mentioned?

Neither you nor Knight has dealt with Luke 12.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The world according to Jaltus...

The world according to Jaltus...

Let's review.....

A heavily armed crazed man comes to your door. He claims he is on a mission to exterminate Christians. He forces his way into your house and starts pointing his weapons at your children. He asks if you or your family are Christians....

What do you do?

According to Jaltus you have every right to grab your shot gun and blow the guys head off (which I agree with). But heaven forbid you lie to the nut to get him out of your house!

Kill him great! But lie to him and your going to hell!
 
J

Jaltus

New member
Dee Dee,

I need the forwarded questions from your friend soon. I go out of town Weds. and do not get back till very late Sunday.
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
The word "speaking" is specifically used in Luke 12:10, 11, 12.
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That's real nice Jaltus.. too bad it wasn't the verses we were talking about. And Titus 1:15-16 is still chomped down on your hindquarters.
 
J

Jaltus

New member
Dee Dee,

Did you read my quote from BDAG? It is considered verbal unless a nonverbal object is used. Your verses do nothing.

Luke 12:10-12 are the CONTEXT, or did you not learn that at prooftext high?
 
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Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Jaltus.... IN THE SCENARIO YOU DIDN'T DENY CHRIST, YOU LIED!!! Rejection is willful and purposeful and intentional thing. That is the same reason that the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (which you brought up first) is not a one-time thing.
 
J

Jaltus

New member
Knight,

Are you sure you actually read my posts?

I would guess that you post for posturings sake, because you certainly rarely respond to what I actually say and often appeal to a nonexistent audience.

How about debating me and not prancing before the audience?
 
J

Jaltus

New member
Dee Dee,

In the context, DENIAL IS VERBAL. Denial is not limited to verbal, but that does not mean that verbal denying is not denying.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Originally posted by Jaltus
Dee Dee,

The word "speaking" is specifically used in Luke 12:10, 11, 12.
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I have already dealt with Luke 12, why do you keep claiming I haven't?

But let me deal with Luke 12 in yet ANOTHER way.

Luke 12 in NO WAY relates to a specific situation where a wicked force can be thwarted by a lie or by deception (same thing). Also Luke 12 in NO WAY relates to a specific situation in where other lives are at stake i.e., The Hebrew midwives, the hiding Jewish family or the crazed man who wants to kill your kids.

Luke 12 does not relate to these dilemmas does it Jaltus?
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Dee Dee,

Denial is not limited to verbal, but that does not mean that verbal denying is not denying.
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That is my point, Jaltus, thank you for proving it. And it also does not mean that this is speaking of a one-time occurence that wasn't even genuine to begin with.
 
J

Jaltus

New member
Dee Dee,

The indirect object, or the means of denial, is the nonverbal, "by their actions." I did not say direct object, nor does BDAG, just object.
 
J

Jaltus

New member
Knight,

8 "I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God.
9 But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God.

WHOEVER is not a limited word, it really means whoever. That means if anyone denies Christ before men, then Christ will deny Him. How can you say it does not pertain? There is no limitation on this scripture.

(literally it is "the one who denies me," which is also not limited in scope, it is a nominalized participle)
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Dee Dee,

The indirect object, or the means of denial, is the nonverbal, "by their actions." I did not say direct object, nor does BDAG, just object.
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It does not say indirect object either. And the fact is that if we let the Bible interpret that Bible, Titus 1:15-16 expounds upon how we can genuinely deny Christ.
 
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