You addressed it again and me. I responded. I didn't repeat the arguments for the most part because of that, but I felt obliged to answer you.
...you need to give support for scripture, and you refuse to.
That's not even a little true.
Really? Thanks for telling me, because I could have sworn I just thought you were wrong and on a point that matters...am I really, really steamed about it then? Odd. I didn't get that, reading me. But you'd know...I guess.
but you cannot show where I'm wrong scripturally.
I believe I have. I'm not surprised you don't think so...that's mostly how it goes in arguments. Especially when people are outraged. Whoever they might be. The rest is for whoever reads it to decide individually.
You're giving us the perfect example of a humanists reasoning.
It really isn't. Humanists, as a foundational matter, don't believe in God. You might want to file that away before you lay that at the feet of someone who loves Him, again. Rather, I'm a Christian who is also a rationalist. That is, my faith is the friend of, not the opponent of reason.
I never once said God desires our sin.
I didn't say you did. I was making my own point, not trying to make yours.
Anyway, the point of that was the end, the problem with where your approach can lead, the caste system, the thing aptly summed in the response of Job's friends. Those who suffer must be suffering because they have offended God. Most of the suffering in the world is simply contextual. Always will be, from children's cancer to rape.
Allowing us to suffer consequences is a matter of justice.
Well, it's certainly just that man is judged and perish, but the cross is a matter of mercy, of God meeting the requirements of justice in love and offering us a thing undeserved.
There is a huge connection between sin and it's consequences right here in this life....which is what you refuse to admit.
There's also Job. And therein my cautionary advance about assuming we know and taking that road and what it can lead to.
God's ways are not man's ways.
Of course. We're corrupt and imperfect and desirous of harm, full of our own sense of value. We have much more in common with the man forgiven much who met debts owed to him a bit differently. That's our nature.
...which is more proof you're a humanist.
Humanists reject God. I only reject poor arguments.
Do you think our being conformed into the image of Christ is done without our suffering? Think again.
You should probably wait for an answer before you decide how to respond to the thing existing only in your mind.
The cross isn't there to catch us when we fall.
I wrote fail. The cross is there because we fail and willfully, because we will not satisfy the law and failing are doomed in judgment by it. Thankfully, Christ has met our insufficiency with His abundance.
It isn't there to excuse our bad behavior in this life granting us permission to continue to commit bad behavior.
I've never suggested it. In fact, I've rejected that notion on any number of occasions.
It's wrong headed for you to assume the cross is there to justify sin in this life.
It would be if I believed that, but as with the humanist business it only exists in your head. It's not me or mine.
Your examples are nothing more than an attempt to pull a rabbit out of a hat.
Only if the hat is lined with Jesus telling us about divided houses or telling the mob with stones to stand on their conviction. That sort of hat.
Surely you can do better than that, counselor.
I not only can, I have. The question I'm considering now is if you can.
Ask Paul if I'm wrong for asking the Lord to reward the slut for her bad behavior.
Slut? Reward her? Put that stone down, glory. You're only going to hurt yourself with it.
You're wrong in saying the psalmist didn't have the cross to contemplate.
No, I'm not. The Psalms were written before the cross came into being, before Advent, etc. Contemplating a thing that hasn't come isn't the same. I can't fault men who weren't living within the shadow of grace. I can or I could fault those who have been given more and done no more with it, if judgment was my meat.
It's convenient for you, but it's only an excuse.
I don't need an excuse. My sins died with Christ. The rest is the walk and moving through my life in gratitude for an unmerited pardon.
