Answering old threads thread

Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
JudgeRightly said:
The onus is on you to defend your position, Arty.



This has earned you a ding.
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My position doesn't, nor ever did need defending. There's no justification for anyone forcing themselves onto another, period. You will not find anything from Paul or anywhere else in the Bible that justifies a husband forcing himself on his wife as Clete has more than ably pointed out so if you want the verses then go look at his posts and anyone else that pompously blather for "scriptural support". Or, point out how there's some sort of "wriggle room" on the score but that's rather a no go also. Heck, I agree with Clete in the region of 4.4% in the main but wow, did he have you lot bang to rights on this subject and his exasperation and disgust was warranted.

How this isn't blatantly obvious to anyone who has a brain instead of a celery stick rattling around upstairs is anyone's guess.

Nobody has the right to force sex onto someone else. Duh.
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Derf said:
Asking him to use the Bible to justify his position ended up getting him banned? I doubt that. It was always his response that he was responsible for.

I'm not opposed to being called a dingbat, and I don't think what he did deserves a ban (@JudgeRightly). But the discussion was about what the Bible said on the subject, yet he refused to use the Bible. What is his role in such a discussion? To claim to know what Paul taught on a subject without accessing Paul's easily accessible writings is to call oneself a dingbat, imo.
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Those easily accessible writings were already there for you and in no way defended any sort of position akin to it being okay for a husband to force sex on his wife. I'm not obliged to provide Bible verses and your presumptions that I'm not aware of such in regards to the topic only reflects on you.

Paul's writings sure don't help your cause about forced sex in a marriage not being rape but "something else" as you feebly claim but yet still haven't clarified as to what exactly...
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Derf said:
I didn't know that about Artie.
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Didn't know what exactly?

Or was this just some real dumb and juvenile *quip* on your part?

I would ask you to clarify but as you can't specify what the "something else" is in regards to forced sex in a marriage other then rape actually entails then won't be holding my breath on the score...
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Derf said:
You make it sound like the conscience is trustworthy. But if Christians need to "walk in the spirit" to produce love joy peace patience kindness goodness gentleness and self-control, how are non-believers going to be able to do those things? Artie said adultery might be permissible in some circumstances. He didn't want to talk about homosexuality being wrong. How much can you trust the conscience of an unbeliever?
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Gotta love precocious presumption and misrepresentation...

I said I didn't condone adultery but rather that it can be understandable in circumstances and wow, could it be understandable with the likes of husbands thinking they have the right to demand sex from their wives and their wives not being too happy about that and going elsewhere...

Could care less about homosexuality frankly. The only folk that do seem to be far right fundamentalists who seem to feel a self important urge to find folk to condemn but have about as much fruit as a withered stalk on a vine.

Oh, also, not an atheist, but even if I was I wouldn't need an abacus to help me work out basic maths or require some aid to tell me that forcing sex onto another is wrong.
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Clete said:
No it most certainly is not Paul's!

That is advice! Terrific advice to be sure but Paul (i.e. God through Paul) is not giving us a new law!

The previous verse says, "The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does."

So tell me, if the wife has authority over her husband's body, how it is that she has no right to tell him that they aren't having sex right now?

She very obviously does based both on the very passage you cite and more importantly - yes - more importantly, based on the most basically intuitive common sense imaginable!

It is absolutely INSANE that I am here having to tell you this! You absolutely are flatly wrong and surely ought to be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself. How it is possible for a Christian to be here advocating a de-facto right to rape one's spouse is beyond anything I could ever explain or would have ever expected to see. It literally disgusts me! I'd like to see how long you stay married if you went and tried to enforce this new law the removes your wife's right to refuse you sexually and see how long you stay out of prison.

I am literally done with this. Your mind is twisted well beyond anything that is rational and to continue would grant you far more respect that you deserve.

Clete
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It is absolutely insane that you've had to point out the absolute obvious and sadly enough it still won't register with certain elements here. Well said anyway.
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Derf said:
Exactly! That's because they are a god unto themselves--no one, in their minds, can tell them what's right or wrong. It's all "internal moral compass", which no one is qualified to critique.
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Funny. I've heard all sorts of stuff emanating from far right fundamentalists that would have some of the most loving and compassionate people I know be thrown into jail or worse because they failed to live up to a particular "moral standard". Further, to the point of homeless people being disparaged as bums regardless and kids as young as five warranting the death penalty no less.

People, eh?
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
What? Seriously? Try reading through this thread again when the talk of rape started. It's as clear as day what Doser and JR's claim is. They have the RIGHT to have sex with their wife. She has no right to deny it. Are you ignoring the spirit of their words.....or letting them off on some technicality?
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She absolutely does obviously and anyone with a semi functioning brain reading the words of Paul can see that there is no way in California, Grimsby and Israel is there any excuse for a husband to force sex onto his wife or has any sort of right to do so either. That two people become one in a marriage means union, a lifelong commitment to the other, to love and to cherish - in sickness and in health etc. Almost unbelievable what some elements are pathetically advocating here but after so many years of being here, sadly, not so much.

Thanks for your support, especially so given that we've had some major spats on here but also some laughs as well and I hope your ill deserved ban lifts soon.

:)
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
Arthur Brain said:
Those easily accessible writings were already there for you and in no way defended any sort of position akin to it being okay for a husband to force sex on his wife. I'm not obliged to provide Bible verses and your presumptions that I'm not aware of such in regards to the topic only reflects on you.

Paul's writings sure don't help your cause about forced sex in a marriage not being rape but "something else" as you feebly claim but yet still haven't clarified as to what exactly...
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Welcome back, AB.
I've already given reason, beyond my own opinion (which, unlike so many around here, I don't expect anyone to adhere to merely because of my superb personality), why it isn't rape, but since you have so little respect for anything authoritative, except your internal moral compass, I can see why it didn't register with you. So, to answer a fool according to his folly, it is my mere opinion that it is impossible for a man to rape his wife, but it isn't impossible nor permissible for a man to physically harm his wife while seeking intimacy with her. And while I agree with @ok doser that her refusal is defrauding him, which is sinful and foolish, there may be times when we men may need to accept some defrauding, though the consequence (which might be sinful on his part) of too much such defrauding might be more than she cares for. It's a vicious spiral.
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
Arthur Brain said:
Funny. I've heard all sorts of stuff emanating from far right fundamentalists that would have some of the most loving and compassionate people I know be thrown into jail or worse because they failed to live up to a particular "moral standard". Further, to the point of homeless people being disparaged as bums regardless and kids as young as five warranting the death penalty no less.

People, eh?
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Yes, we are all worthy of death due to our inability to live up to that perfect moral standard, and we all need the mercy of God exhibited in the death of his own son for us, so that we might live who believe on him.
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Derf said:
Welcome back, AB.
I've already given reason, beyond my own opinion (which, unlike so many around here, I don't expect anyone to adhere to merely because of my superb personality), why it isn't rape, but since you have so little respect for anything authoritative, except your internal moral compass, I can see why it didn't register with you. So, to answer a fool according to his folly, it is my mere opinion that it is impossible for a man to rape his wife, but it isn't impossible nor permissible for a man to physically harm his wife while seeking intimacy with her. And while I agree with @ok doser that her refusal is defrauding him, which is sinful and foolish, there may be times when we men may need to accept some defrauding, though the consequence (which might be sinful on his part) of too much such defrauding might be more than she cares for. It's a vicious spiral.
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Why thank you Derf!

But no, you haven't. You also have yet to acknowledge your own erroneous presumptive opinions regarding myself but no matter, kinda expect it from certain quarters and to be fair, not immune from doing it myself on occasion either but where it comes to this topic:

There is no excuse for a husband or anyone to force themselves on their partner. You won't find any help in the Bible on that score either. Not unless you want to try and twist things into meaning force is not rape but "something else" and "loving and cherishing" into violation. You ain't gonna get anywhere with that.
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Derf said:
Yes, we are all worthy of death due to our inability to live up to that perfect moral standard, and we all need the mercy of God exhibited in the death of his own son for us, so that we might live who believe on him.
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That's all very Sunday service church meeting an' all but nothing actually addressing my post. Ho hum.
 
Stripe

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Skeeter said:
Have any of these people changed their minds?
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No.
 
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