Annihilationism is taught in the bible

[CherubRam]

Either that, or you don't know the difference between a parable, and a figure of speech

Let alone, when a parable is used to hide a thing and when it is used to reveal it.

Or when figure of speech is meant to be taken as a figure of speech, and when it is to be taken literally.

:chuckle:

As for your assertion that I am taking sides with the Serpent (a metaphor for a literal Adversary, by the way) against God(a literal for The Literal God of all Creation) - how so?

I mean, not that I'll agree with your explanation, but at least I'll hear it out.

For as the Apostle Paul makes obvious in Titus 1, at least to this "follower of Paul" even the opposition can at times say something the "witness" of which "is true" and is therefore worthy of considering.

So lay out the basis of this accusation of yours - I can not take offense - for I have Rom. 5:6-8 as my lens...towards what ever any man and or circumstance might send my way.

Which leaves me free to learn what ever there might be of merit to learn from anyone, friend or foe.

O what a Saviour...indeed.

Rom. 5:6-8.

I am aware that the Serpent is a metaphor for a literal Adversary. And again, the word "HELL" is not even in the original bible text. The Hebrew word "SHEOL" always translates as "GRAVE."

 

[Arthur Brain]

Nope.

Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Both are...literal.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Both are...literal.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Both are...literal.

Rom. 5:6-8

If the fire is literal then how does it make sense that death and hell are cast into it?

 

[clefty]

If the fire is literal then how does it make sense that death and hell are cast into it?

Whoa hang on...I am still trying to make sense of how a drop of literal water will quench a spirit’s tongue?

I mean He proved He wasnt a spirit by eating and letting them touch Him...but somehow spirits can burn in literal fire?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Words mean things. Sometimes fire means fire. There are other words that could have been used if "Lake of Judgment" was meant.

In the most symbolic chapter of the entire bible? Doesn't fail to amaze how people can read it literally and sometimes I think it's because they just want to out of some perverse desire to imagine people suffering. Your sig says everything about you already, there's never been any love or empathy with you since being Musty or previous.

Further, there's plenty of terms people use that don't mean literal fire. If someone is excelling at something, say in sport it's not unusual for them to be described as "on fire". Literal? Noooooo...

 

[Arthur Brain]

Whoa hang on...I am still trying to make sense of how a drop of literal water will quench a spirit’s tongue?

I mean He proved He wasnt a spirit by eating and letting them touch Him...but somehow spirits can burn in literal fire?

Well, it doesn't make sense and if he was in agony he'd be screaming for a waterfall never mind a drop...

Ain't gonna make much difference to the hardcore literal brigade though...

 

[clefty]

Well, it doesn't make sense and if he was in agony he'd be screaming for a waterfall never mind a drop...

Ain't gonna make much difference to the hardcore literal brigade though...

No it doesnt make sense nor does having Abraham ACTUALLY teaching no one would be convinced though one was risen from the dead...

That teaching ACTUALLY counters the very gospel message that One is indeed risen so BE CONVINCED...lol

 

[CherubRam]

Would Christ teach a Pagan belief in Hell in opposition to what God says? And again people, the word Hell is not even in the original text of the bible. The Hebrew word "sheol" never ever means "Hell."

 

[Truster]

Eternal damnation simply means that the Judgement of Death is final.

You wish.

 

[musterion]

If the fire is literal then how does it make sense that death and hell are cast into it?

Good question.

Death and all that goes with it, namely the grave, corruption etc, will be no more. NEW heavens, NEW earth. All that was the result of sin in the old will be gone. Even the potential for sin...gone forever. All will forever be as it should.

 

[musterion]

In the most symbolic chapter of the entire bible? Doesn't fail to amaze how people can read it literally and sometimes I think it's because they just want to out of some perverse desire to imagine people suffering. Your sig says everything about you already, there's never been any love or empathy with you since being Musty or previous.

Further, there's plenty of terms people use that don't mean literal fire. If someone is excelling at something, say in sport it's not unusual for them to be described as "on fire". Literal? Noooooo...

You are forgetting or never knew one vitally important fact in all this, as are some of the others here. I'll let you read it to figure it out...


[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


See it?

Clefty's erroneous complaint above is a BIG clue to the key error you all are making.

 

[CherubRam]

You wish.

OK, so you support the Serpent then.

Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

 

[Truster]

OK, so you support the Serpent then.

Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

"Thou shat surely die" being understood as thou shalt become mortal, subject to death of the body.

 

[Arthur Brain]

You are forgetting or never knew one vitally important fact in all this, as are some of the others here. I'll let you read it to figure it out...


[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


See it?

Clefty's erroneous complaint above is a BIG clue to the key error you all are making.

What's obvious is that you seem incapable of seeing symbolism and metaphor. This is just waffle without substance.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Good question.

Death and all that goes with it, namely the grave, corruption etc, will be no more. NEW heavens, NEW earth. All that was the result of sin in the old will be gone. Even the potential for sin...gone forever. All will forever be as it should.

All well and good but that doesn't address how it's a literal lake of fire such as you believe? The symbolism seems ultra obvious. Intangible objects and states of being can't burn for starters.

 

[musterion]

What's obvious is that you seem incapable of seeing symbolism and metaphor. This is just waffle without substance.

And here I gave you credit, thinking you were asking an honest question and looking for an honest discussion.

 

[musterion]

All well and good but that doesn't address how it's a literal lake of fire such as you believe? The symbolism seems ultra obvious. Intangible objects and states of being can't burn for starters.

I just tried to engage you on that but you blew it off, so there's nothing else I had to say to you about it.

 

[Danoh]

Well, it doesn't make sense and if he was in agony he'd be screaming for a waterfall never mind a drop...

Ain't gonna make much difference to the hardcore literal brigade though...

Either that, or your own lens has simply reached the limits of where it looks at a thing from.

That right there just might be the gaping hole in your above "one size fits all" conclusion.

It is obvious you think you have sufficiently exhausted the question "what might be an exception to my conclusion."

That is, if you have actually asked such a question, let alone, sufficiently - for that matter, let alone, efficiently.

While I am at it, do you believe Christ died for your sins? Do you believe you have to do something for your salvation?

Lest you read something into that other than what I mean by asking you that, I ask you that because I don't know where you stand on that and absent of an answer on that in the positive - all else is a waste of time.

What are your beliefs on the Bible and on sin, and on Christ having died for sin?

And never mind the right away ganging up on one of the so called experts on that on here - we both know theirs is a hypocrisy.

Thanks.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[Danoh]

I just tried to engage you on that but you blew it off, so there's nothing else I had to say to you about it.

Right - spit and spit and spit on someone (which is different from calling someone out) - and then blame them for failing to see yours was some all of a sudden wonderful giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Your double-bind is of your own making.

Try the following, for once - and for a time.

2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Actually try that, and in memory of Romans 5:6-8 - should you find yourself tempted away from that, by your hypocrisy once more.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Either that, or your own lens has simply reached the limits of where it looks at a thing from.

That right there just might be the gaping hole in your above "one size fits all" conclusion.

It is obvious you think you have sufficiently exhausted the question "what might be an exception to my conclusion."

That is, if you have actually asked such a question, let alone, sufficiently - for that matter, let alone, efficiently.

While I am at it, do you believe Christ died for your sins? Do you believe you have to do something for your salvation?

Lest you read something into that other than what I mean by asking you that, I ask you that because I don't know where you stand on that and absent of an answer on that in the positive - all else is a waste of time.

What are your beliefs on the Bible and on sin, and on Christ having died for sin?

And never mind the right away ganging up on one of the so called experts on that on here - we both know theirs is a hypocrisy.

Thanks.

Rom. 5:6-8.

Simply put, the notion that there is a loving God who created this world and set the parameters whereby most of creation would suffer interminably through eternity doesn't add up. There's a god up there that's gonna torment helpless beings in fire because they didn't believe or find the right path in a snapshot of existence? That isn't love by any stretch, especially given how love is described in the bible itself. The early church in the main didn't glean such from the original texts if you're familiar with Origen, Gregory of Nyssa etc? I'm not interested in going on a tangent about my own beliefs, I'm not an orthodox believer for sure and I'm not an atheist either and anything else on that score is suited for another thread.

 

[Arthur Brain]

And here I gave you credit, thinking you were asking an honest question and looking for an honest discussion.

It was. All you did was quote a passage insisting that there were erroneous mistakes in reasoning without even hinting at to just what they were. It was declaration masked as substance. Unfortunately there wasn't any.

I just tried to engage you on that but you blew it off, so there's nothing else I had to say to you about it.

No, you didn't address what I asked you, which is how the lake of fire can be literal given that intangibles are "cast" into it. If anything your answer supported the notion that it isn't literal at all despite your apparent insistence that the fire is physically real.