Theology Club: All Men

[heir]

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

1 Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Some people would like to read verse 4 as if it says, "who will have men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.", but that's not what it says. Paul is emphasizing that God will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Why? During the Acts period Paul was sent to the Jew first and also to the Greek (Romans 1:16 KJV), the "them which are called, both Jews and Greeks" (1 Corinthians 1:24 KJV). He was not sent to all men.

National Israel fell, but God did not cast away His people which He foreknew (Romans 11:1-2 KJV). There were some out of Israel that would believe (Romans 11:14 KJV); a remnant which God foreknew (Romans 11:5 KJV). The Jews still had the advantage (Romans 3:1-2 KJV). To provoke the Jews to jealousy, Paul was sent to "the Gentiles" (certain Gentiles Romans 11:11 KJV). Keep in mind that although Paul makes mention of Gentiles such as we in Romans (Romans 1:14 KJV), he had yet to let the cat out of the bag (2 Corinthians 12:1-6 KJV). He was not yet sent far hence (Acts 22:21 KJV) to Gentiles like you and me (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV).

The people to whom Paul was sent during this provoking ministry in Acts were in the commonwealth of Israel.. They were Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (Genesis 12:3 KJV, Acts 13:26 KJV, Galatians 3:29 KJV). Paul preached the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) to them, which was before a mystery (Romans 16:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV) as the power of God unto salvation.

After the remnant was gathered into the Body, Paul was sent to testify "in due time" (1 Timothy 2:6 KJV) the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 22:17-21 KJV, Acts 20:24 KJV, Acts 28:24-28 KJV). It's the same good news; that Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day, but it was no longer to the Jew first and also to the Greek, nor was it "according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). It was to ALL MEN (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV), including the likes of people like you and me (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV)!

This revealed the fellowship of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9 KJV), that was previously hid in God, the mystery of the gospel concerning "you Gentiles" (Ephesians 3:6 KJV, Ephesians 6:19 KJV): that God's grace through the faith and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ would extend to far hence people like you and me (Acts 22:17-21 KJV, Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV, Titus 2:11 KJV) revealing the twain made one new man~the two groups in the one Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:12-13 KJV, Ephesians 2:13-17 KJV).

Praise the Lord!

 

[beloved57]

heir

They were Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise

They were also Gentiles who were part of that seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 4:16-17

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all[Gentiles]
,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

So the abraham seed of heirs was in all nations, for it is written:
As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations


You deny this, and you deny the Gospel ! Thats why Paul was sent to the gentiles, to gather out God's Elect Abraham Seed out of it 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

He had Just said in 2 Tim 1:11

11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

 

[heir]

heir



They were also Gentiles who were part of that seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I made mention of those Gentiles. They were to whom Paul was first sent. And yet still there were other Gentiles. We are likened to them (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV). We are the Gentiles that Paul became a prisoner of Jesus Christ for (Ephesians 3:1 KJV).

I know why you are in this thread and it is not to have a discussion, but to disrupt and propagate your Calvinism which is a direct result of your rebellion of 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. Please, go do it elsewhere.

 

[heir]

You deny this, and you deny the Gospel ! Thats why Paul was sent to the gentiles, to gather out God's Elect Abraham Seed out of it 2 Tim 2:10

Paul was sent more than once. Acts 26:16-17 KJV and Acts 22:17-21 KJV and to more than one "Gentile" Acts 13:26 KJV, Galatians 3:29 KJV and later "in due time" to Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV.

Now, go.

 

[beloved57]

I made mention of those Gentiles. They were to whom Paul was first sent. And yet still there were other Gentiles. We are likened to them (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV). We are the Gentiles that Paul became a prisoner of Jesus Christ for (Ephesians 3:1 KJV).

I know why you are in this thread and it is not to have a discussion, but to disrupt and propagate your Calvinism which is a direct result of your rebellion of 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. Please, go do it elsewhere.

Those Gentiles were the heirs of promise, Abraham's Seed ! Do you believe that ? Yes or No ?

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[heir]

Those Gentiles were the heirs of promise, Abraham's Seed ! Do you believe that ? Yes or No ?

Posted from the TOL App!

No, not these Gentiles, the "you Gentiles" like the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter!

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

 

[beloved57]

heir

No, not these Gentiles,

Yes those gentiles, did you read and understand post 2 ?

Also the gentiles of Eph 2 are the same of Eph 3 which said:Eph 3:6

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

One of the same promises of Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

That shows you dont understand Eph 2:12 !

 

[heir]

heir



Yes those gentiles, did you read and understand post 2 ?

Also the gentiles of Eph 2 are the same of Eph 3 which said:Eph 3:6

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

One of the same promises of Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

That shows you dont understand Eph 2:12 !

:doh: The Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter are partakers of God's promise in Christ BY THE GOSPEL (just as we) not heirs according to the PROMISE like the Galatians.

 

[beloved57]

:doh: The Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter are partakers of God's promise in Christ BY THE GOSPEL (just as we) not heirs according to the PROMISE like the Galatians.

They are, it is right before you and you deny it !

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Nick M]

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

1 Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Some people would like to read verse 4 as if it says, "who will have men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.", but that's not what it says. Paul is emphasizing that God will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Well done. I will save the perverts the time and give you their most well thought out retort.

The answer is obviously "no," unless you believe God is a Big Pathetic Loser. And before you start quoting 1Ti 2:4, consider first the use of the Greek word "pas" in the following verses, noting how the word is translated by the 17th-century translators: Mt 4:23; 5:11; 10:1; 12:31; Lu 11:42; Ac 10:12; Ro 7:8; 1Pe 1:15; Re 18:12; 21:19. [Hint: instead of simply using "all" to translate the word, the translators used "all manner of." Why do you suppose that is?]
Of course not. If God desired that all men be saved, then they would be (John 6:37-40). That is, obviously, unless you (like all the Open Theists in the world) have the unfortunate view that reduces God to a pathetic loser, who can do nothing to save a single person. Despite the fact that Open Theists pray for God to save people, God is powerless to stop the masses from plunging into hell. Everyday that goes by, more and more people go to hell, and more and more hell-bound people are born.

My question to Paris Hilston was does God desire all men to be saved or not. His answer is that God is a big fat loser. The true heart of a calvinist.

 

[heir]

I opened this thread to show why Paul made emphasis to "all men" and believe it's because God was no longer calling the Jew first and also the Greek (both Jews and Greeks) as in Paul's provoking ministry (Acts ministry) when he was committed a dispensation of the gospel.

Later, Paul was given a dispensation of the grace of God to usward (Ephesians 3:1-2 KJV) to testify "in due time" the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4); that God will have all men to be saved; that Jesus Christ gave Himself a ransom for all (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV) including the likes of "you Gentiles" (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV, Ephesians 2:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV).

 

[Nick M]

No, not these Gentiles, the "you Gentiles" like the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter!

A big step for me was realizing the group in the Bible I would most be like is the Ephesians. Especially knowing the western European ancestry and how pagan and heathenish they were. Lost and without hope.

 

[Pierac]

I opened this thread to show why Paul made emphasis to "all men" and believe it's because God was no longer calling the Jew first and also the Greek (both Jews and Greeks) as in Paul's provoking ministry (Acts ministry) when he was committed a dispensation of the gospel.

Later, Paul was given a dispensation of the grace of God to usward (Ephesians 3:1-2 KJV) to testify "in due time" the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4); that God will have all men to be saved; that Jesus Christ gave Himself a ransom for all (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV) including the likes of "you Gentiles" (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV, Ephesians 2:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV).

The verses you use do not support your view and/or understanding...

You forget...

Rom 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."

What part of all do you not understand? :think:

Yea, you keep wanting to add to the traditions of men... Yet, demand to have a voice... pretty sad coming from a woman wanting to break free from so much traditions of men. :readthis:

Net Jer 10:23 LORD, we know that people do not control their own destiny. It is not in their power to determine what will happen to them. :kiss:

Do you even know? Let go of your emotions and seek the truth!
oly::sherlock:
Paul

 

[heir]

The verses you use do not support your view and/or understanding...

Yes, they do

You forget...

Rom 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."

That will happen

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

but it has nothing to do with the dispensation of the grace of God! We are in a time of mystery not prophecy! Get with the program~!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

A big step for me was realizing the group in the Bible I would most be like is the Ephesians. Especially knowing the western European ancestry and how pagan and heathenish they were. Lost and without hope.

:up:

Especially the Ephesians he did not know from his time in Acts.

 

[patrick jane]

Yes, they do

That will happen

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

but it has nothing to do with the dispensation of the grace of God! We are in a time of mystery not prophecy! Get with the program~!

Great thread/study - I always learn from your posts heir

 

[heir]

A big step for me was realizing the group in the Bible I would most be like is the Ephesians.

:thumb: Yep! It's great to know just where it is that we (the "you Gentiles") fit into God's mystery plan!

 

[heir]

Great thread/study - I always learn from your posts heir

PTL!

 

[Danoh]

My own understanding from the passages is that the promise in Galatians and Ephesians are one and the same - Christ.

That what Paul is relating in Galatians 3 is in light of Romans 3 thru 5, etc.

But that both believing, and unbelieving Jews, now had an off-based understanding of, given the still relatively new Dispensation, Acts 9 thru 15.

Thus, Paul's relating his having had to go up to Jerusalem to bring believing Jews up to speed as to this "gospel that I preach among the Gentiles, Gal. 2:2-9.

Thus, passages like Galatians 1: 6-7; 2:20; 3:1-3; 5: 1-2, etc.

Galatians is "correction" (2 Tim. 3:16-17) of understanding "fallen from" the "grace" truth that Paul taught the Galatians, Gal. 3:1-3, the various details of; which Paul would later lay out in Romans.

In this, where Galatians fits in 2 Tim. 3:16-17 is its having been written "for correction... that the man of God might be perfect, throughly furnshed (throughly stablished) unto all good works."

The Galatians had fallen from said understanding (stablishment).

 

[heir]

My own understanding from the passages is that the promise in Galatians and Ephesians are one and the same - Christ.

The Galatians were heirs according to the promise while the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter were strangers from the covenants of promise. Why you want to ignore the facts is on you, not me. 2 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV


The OP stands and unless you are going to address it, please refrain from posting in this thread.