SaulToPaul 2
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:chuckle:
ECT Acts realism vs MAD theoretics: Acts 16:3
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SimpleMan77
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Acts 10
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
1 Corinthians 1
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
SimpleMan77
New member
Acts realism vs MAD theoretics: Acts 16:3
So predictable. In 1 Corinthians Paul was dealing with people who were divided into factions. Some saying "I'm of Paul", others "I'm of Peter" and others "I'm of Apollos" - all powerful preachers who had ministered to them.
To make his point, Paul reminds them that they aren't baptized in the name of a preacher, they are baptized in the name of Jesus. He then says "I'm glad I only personally baptized a few of you, so that there can be no doubt that I didn't baptize you into some 'Paul club'".
God sent him to preach Christ, which included preaching baptism in the name of Christ. He didn't send him to do the baptizing.
The fact that Paul didn't PERSONALLY baptize his converts doesn't change the fact that Paul preached and taught all of them get baptized.
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So predictable. In 1 Corinthians Paul was dealing with people who were divided into factions. Some saying "I'm of Paul", others "I'm of Peter" and others "I'm of Apollos" - all powerful preachers who had ministered to them.
To make his point, Paul reminds them that they aren't baptized in the name of a preacher, they are baptized in the name of Jesus. He then says "I'm glad I only personally baptized a few of you, so that there can be no doubt that I didn't baptize you into some 'Paul club'".
God sent him to preach Christ, which included preaching baptism in the name of Christ. He didn't send him to do the baptizing.
The fact that Paul didn't PERSONALLY baptize his converts doesn't change the fact that Paul preached and taught all of them get baptized.
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Right Divider
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:juggle:
Saved by grace through faith is ALL about what the LORD Jesus Christ did FOR US.
This is why religious folks like you reject it.
You want to show yourselves to be someone somehow deserving of a reward.
Good luck with that.
SimpleMan77
New member
Acts realism vs MAD theoretics: Acts 16:3
If grace without our response saves us, then everyone is saved, no matter what. Those that don't believe along with those that believe.
However, if our response (believing) is what makes God's grace active in our lives, then grace is dependent upon our response.
I take it that you believe that everyone will be saved because of Calvary, whether they believe or not.
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If grace without our response saves us, then everyone is saved, no matter what. Those that don't believe along with those that believe.
However, if our response (believing) is what makes God's grace active in our lives, then grace is dependent upon our response.
I take it that you believe that everyone will be saved because of Calvary, whether they believe or not.
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Right Divider
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You don't accept grace, so how would you know?
Most don't accept grace; like you.
Oh, so now it's all about YOUR RESPONSE..... typical.
Where do YOU get such a ridiculous idea?
Certainly NOT from ANYTHING that I've said.
You're very typical of the deceivers here.
SimpleMan77
New member
This is hilarious. You condemn me for saying that you have to believe in order for grace to be active, then in the same breath you say people do have to believe.
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Nope.... you're just as confused as always.
Your terminology is ever changing. You need to stick to the actual meanings of words.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Are you really going to correct the KJB to make your theology work? Just like many others, aren't you?
2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
SimpleMan77
New member
Let me simplify my question: do you believe that a response to the Gospel is required in order to be saved - specifically the response of believing?
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heir
TOL Subscriber
We can believe the passage means exactly what it says, as it says it and to whom it says it in a KJB! It’s pretty simple to see that Israel looks forward to the blotting out of their sins when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Paul confirms this!
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As does the writer of Hebrews!
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
heir
TOL Subscriber
What Peter preached was a murder indictment to all the house of Israel (Acts 2:22-23 KJV, Acts 2:36 KJV), that they had murdered their Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, but that God hath raised Him up!
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Acts 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Notice, their reaction!
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Peter told them what they must do for the remission of sins. They must repent (change their mind) about WHO Jesus Christ was and be identified (baptized) in water for the remission of sins.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
That is not the gospel of your salvation! 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!
SimpleMan77
New member
Acts realism vs MAD theoretics: Acts 16:3
No, I'll let 95% of the other translations do that.
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord (NIV)
Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord (NASB)
Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped out, that seasons of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord (HCSB)
Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord (NAS)
Repent ye therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that so there may come seasons of refreshing from the presence of the Lord (ASV)
And many more. Basically all the Greek translators and scholars agree that the KJV translators got this one wrong.
But, like a lady I once heard of said, "if the King James Version was good enough for Peter and Paul, it's good enough for me".
Can't really argue with that
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No, I'll let 95% of the other translations do that.
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord (NIV)
Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord (NASB)
Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped out, that seasons of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord (HCSB)
Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord (NAS)
Repent ye therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that so there may come seasons of refreshing from the presence of the Lord (ASV)
And many more. Basically all the Greek translators and scholars agree that the KJV translators got this one wrong.
But, like a lady I once heard of said, "if the King James Version was good enough for Peter and Paul, it's good enough for me".
Can't really argue with that
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Interplanner
Well-known member
A ridiculous conclusion heir. it was forgiveness. The sin was different, unique, but it was still forgiveness. Very shoddy reason to be in theology.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Got it. Always a bible corrector, never a Bible believer.
Acts 3:19-21 KJV means exactly what it says, as it says it and to whom it says it! Israel looks forward to the blotting out of their sins when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Paul confirms this!
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As does the writer of Hebrews!
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The "when" is a future day:
Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
SimpleMan77
New member
Peter had to show them that their religiosity wouldn't keep them from condemnation (they were devout Law-keepers).
He had to preach what they had done to allow the Holy Ghost to break through their smug self-righteousness and make them realize that they stood condemned before God.
The only people who desire salvation are those who realize they are lost. These people didn't know they had murdered the Lord from Glory - they thought they were killing some crazy, Law-breaking man.
If Peter wouldn't have preached that way they would have been lost, smug in their self-righteousness.
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SimpleMan77
New member
Acts realism vs MAD theoretics: Acts 16:3
Far be it from me to take Peter and Paul's King James Version from you.
If it was good enough for the apostles, it should be good enough for me and you.
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Far be it from me to take Peter and Paul's King James Version from you.
If it was good enough for the apostles, it should be good enough for me and you.
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heir
TOL Subscriber
:chuckle: Yes, they would be of the "many which corrupt the word of God" (2 Corinthians 2:17 KJV)!
Interplanner
Well-known member
All of those OT passages are true in Christ. The blotting out (an accounting term) is what justification was about. The times of refresshing was the Holy spirit's work to take this message to the rest of the world. Everything worked! The mission of the Gospel to the world was always the objective and target of the ministry of Christ.