Abraham Had To Prove His Faith With Works

[Squeaky]

Yup and they squeaked a lot about doing things they made up...man made traditions

Or taught one thing and then did another

Like squeaky here...

Teaching to do works but then choosing as he pleases whichever he wants to actually do

And not Love just as He did nor work just as He did nor has the Faith OF HIM just as He commanded to abide in His love doing His Father’s will...

I said
lol I have seen a lot of people full of bitter envy. And like you they also bear false witness.


[Eph 4:31
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
[Heb 12:15
15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

 

[clefty]

I said
lol I have seen a lot of people full of bitter envy. And like you they also bear false witness.


[Eph 4:31
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
[Heb 12:15
15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

Dont flatter yourself...Yours does not cause envy on my part...it is like taking only some of the medicine doing some of the treatment to get well...or using most of the parts in an engine repair...with minimum tools you want to use yet not the proper ones...

Or playing a game with someone who moves the goalpoasts...nope no envy...

As for bitterness...hardly...even the moneychangers must have thought “what’s His Problem? Lost His money? He’s just bitter” while He threw them out...LOL

Cleansing to glorify Yah does not come from bitterness nor defiles anyone...

 

[Squeaky]

Dont flatter yourself...Yours does not cause envy on my part...it is like taking only some of the medicine doing some of the treatment to get well...or using most of the parts in an engine repair...with minimum tools you want to use yet not the proper ones...

Or playing a game with someone who moves the goalpoasts...nope no envy...

As for bitterness...hardly...even the moneychangers must have thought “what’s His Problem? Lost His money? He’s just bitter” while He threw them out...LOL

Cleansing to glorify Yah does not come from bitterness nor defiles anyone...

I said
lol I hope you understand you cant claim anything from Jesus without showing the verses in support of what your saying. But you cant deny your bitterness we all see that.

[Heb 12:15
15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

 

[clefty]

I said
lol I hope you understand you cant claim anything from Jesus without showing the verses in support of what your saying.

your an idiot...hey that is fun

All you do claim is you can choose whatever day you wish to worship without showing a jot or tittle of verse showing He wishes that...

But you cant deny your bitterness we all see that.

stop projecting...truth frees and liberates...brings peace and joy...your 9/10ths “do what thou whilst” reveals your two masters compromise which inspires the dissonance and pontifications of a Pharisee here...

It is entertaining though...like it must have been watching the hypocrites praying on the corners...

Teaching to keep the commandments brought over into the NT but then practicing “do whatever I want”...

 

[Squeaky]

your an idiot...hey that is fun

All you do claim is you can choose whatever day you wish to worship without showing a jot or tittle of verse showing He wishes that...

stop projecting...truth frees and liberates...brings peace and joy...your 9/10ths “do what thou whilst” reveals your two masters compromise which inspires the dissonance and pontifications of a Pharisee here...

It is entertaining though...like it must have been watching the hypocrites praying on the corners...

Teaching to keep the commandments brought over into the NT but then practicing “do whatever I want”...

I said
lol So your going to judge me? Your judging Jesus and what He approved of.
[Rom 14:2-6
2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats [only] vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems [one] day above another; another esteems every day [alike]. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes [it] to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe [it]. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

 

[clefty]

I said
lol So your going to judge me? Your judging Jesus and what He approved of.
[Rom 14:2-6
2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats [only] vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems [one] day above another; another esteems every day [alike]. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes [it] to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe [it]. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

I am not judging you...scripture is...no where in that text does Paul mention Sabbaths but fasting...Sabbaths are not a doubtful thing prolly why you skipped verse 1 of that chapter...nor in dispute for a Jew...and believing Jew...teaching worship any day would be hypocritical as Paul did not practice such

 

[Squeaky]

I am not judging you...scripture is...no where in that text does Paul mention Sabbaths but fasting...Sabbaths are not a doubtful thing prolly why you skipped verse 1 of that chapter...nor in dispute for a Jew...and believing Jew...teaching worship any day would be hypocritical as Paul did not practice such

I said
I think your missing the context. It doesn't say anything about fasting either now does it. I have received it in a revelation of Jesus Christ. Show me your revelations and I will compare them to mine.

[Mat 5:6
6 Blessed [are] those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.

[1Co 11:25-26
25 In the same manner [He] also [took] the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink [it], in remembrance of Me."
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

 

[clefty]

I said
I think your missing the context. It doesn't say anything about fasting either now does it. I have received it in a revelation of Jesus Christ. Show me your revelations and I will compare them to mine.

Context? How about it starts with diet and food and who eats what why and summerizes with verses 17 the kingdom of God is not food and drink

Verse 20 do not destroy the work of God for the sake of worship days? NO! But FOOD!

Verse 21 its good to neither to eat nor drink which makes your brother stumble

And ends with

Verse 23 he who doubts is condemned if he EATS...because he does not EAT from faith...

So beginning and end frame the context of DIET EATING

Now an interesting middle is about choosing a day or another day to observe what? Sabbath?

NO. ABSTINENCE FROM FOOD. Also known as fasting...some jews did it twice a week some only once...Greeks crowding into synagogues every Sabbath were doubtful and weak in the faith in matters of FOOOD and were getting confused...imagine however it was days of worship...

The instruction was to meet corporately...you know ekklessia...now imagine some one day others another and others still another and what would come of the festival still kept BTW...

So lets conclude for the kingdom of heaven is not about food and drink

Observing one day or another to eat or not is the issue and should not be judged...

[Mat 5:6
6 Blessed [are] those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.

lol...what does righteousness taste like? Obedience...be filled with the clean not unclean

[1Co 11:25-26
25 In the same manner [He] also [took] the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink [it], in remembrance of Me."
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

EXACTLY...For as often as you EAT...keeps the eating times flexible not the SABBATH...

No where near whenever you worship or anyday you want to observe the seventh day Sabbath...

 

[clefty]

I said
I think your missing the context. It doesn't say anything about fasting either now does it. I have received it in a revelation of Jesus Christ. Show me your revelations and I will compare them to mine.

Context? How about it starts with diet and food and who eats what why and summerizes with verses 17 the kingdom of God is not food and drink

Verse 20 do not destroy the work of God for the sake of worship days? NO! But FOOD!

Verse 21 its good to neither to eat nor drink which makes your brother stumble

And ends with

Verse 23 he who doubts is condemned if he EATS...because he does not EAT from faith...

So beginning and end frame the context of DIET EATING

Now an interesting middle is about choosing a day or another day to observe what? Sabbath?

NO. ABSTINENCE FROM FOOD. Also known as fasting...some jews did it twice a week some only once...Greeks crowding into synagogues every Sabbath were doubtful and weak in the faith in matters of FOOOD and were getting confused...imagine however it was days of worship...

The instruction was to meet corporately...you know ekklessia...now imagine some one day others another and others still another and what would come of the festival still kept BTW...

So lets conclude for the kingdom of heaven is not about food and drink

Observing one day or another to eat or not is the issue and should not be judged...

[Mat 5:6
6 Blessed [are] those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.

lol...what does righteousness taste like? Obedience...be filled with the clean not unclean...be satisfied with what He prescribed and not your own inclinations...

Eat this scroll...Ezekiel 3:3

Your Judgments are...sweeter than Honey. Ps 19: 9-10

Come on Squeaky after hearing of the holy commandment dont go back to your vomit like a dog...

[1Co 11:25-26
25 In the same manner [He] also [took] the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink [it], in remembrance of Me."
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

EXACTLY...For as often as you EAT...keeps the eating times flexible not the SABBATH...

No where near whenever you worship or anyday you want to observe the seventh day Sabbath...

 

[Squeaky]

Context? How about it starts with diet and food and who eats what why and summerizes with verses 17 the kingdom of God is not food and drink

Verse 20 do not destroy the work of God for the sake of worship days? NO! But FOOD!

Verse 21 its good to neither to eat nor drink which makes your brother stumble

And ends with

Verse 23 he who doubts is condemned if he EATS...because he does not EAT from faith...

So beginning and end frame the context of DIET EATING

Now an interesting middle is about choosing a day or another day to observe what? Sabbath?

NO. ABSTINENCE FROM FOOD. Also known as fasting...some jews did it twice a week some only once...Greeks crowding into synagogues every Sabbath were doubtful and weak in the faith in matters of FOOOD and were getting confused...imagine however it was days of worship...

The instruction was to meet corporately...you know ekklessia...now imagine some one day others another and others still another and what would come of the festival still kept BTW...

So lets conclude for the kingdom of heaven is not about food and drink

Observing one day or another to eat or not is the issue and should not be judged...



lol...what does righteousness taste like? Obedience...be filled with the clean not unclean



EXACTLY...For as often as you EAT...keeps the eating times flexible not the SABBATH...

No where near whenever you worship or anyday you want to observe the seventh day Sabbath...

I said

I see nothing about fasting. I see in verse 17 this is not about eating and drinking. So it must be about something else. I see the vegetables as the milk understanding. That is the way scripture is written in the milk understanding. There is a meat understanding, that it is obvious you havent entered yet. And the meat understanding is all about righteousness.
[Rom 14:1-10
1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, [but] not to disputes over doubtful things.
2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats [only] vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems [one] day above another; another esteems every day [alike]. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes [it] to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe [it]. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[Rom 14:17
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Now because the denominations and churches only teach the milk understanding. Those in the meat understanding should receive those weak in the faith. And be gentle with them. Like I am trying to do with you.

 

[beameup]

XXX Even Abraham had to prove his faith with works.

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
Romans 4:1-5 NASB

 

[Squeaky]

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
Romans 4:1-5 NASB

I said
Works prove his faith. Faith comes first, but you still have to prove your faith with works.

[Jas 2:21-22, 24
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? ...
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[beameup]

I said
Works prove his faith. Faith comes first, but you still have to prove your faith with works.

Not according to Paul's doctrine.
Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles,
not Peter, James, Jude.

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. - James 1:1

 

[Squeaky]

Not according to Paul's doctrine.
Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles,
not Peter, James, Jude.

I said
Every verse is a spiritual principle. Every principle needs more principles to make a conclusion. The Holy Spirit is the one who brings the principles together to make a conclusion.

 

[beameup]

I said
Every verse is a spiritual principle. Every principle needs more principles to make a conclusion. The Holy Spirit is the one who brings the principles together to make a conclusion.

Well, the Holy Spirit left you with the conclusion that you should follow Paul.
Three places the Holy Spirit has written down that Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles:

Romans 11:3 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles

Otherwise you're stuck between Judaism and Grace :dizzy:

 

[Squeaky]

Well, the Holy Spirit left you with the conclusion that you should follow Paul.
Three places the Holy Spirit has written down that Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles:

Romans 11:3 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles

Otherwise you're stuck between Judaism and Grace :dizzy:

I said
Not so. The Holy Spirit has led me to follow God. Whether its through Paul or Jesus or Peter or any of the other apostles. I have received revelation on every book in the new testament.

 

[beameup]

I said
Not so. The Holy Spirit has led me to follow God. Whether its through Paul or Jesus or Peter or any of the other apostles. I have received revelation on every book in the new testament.

That's why your stuck between Law and Grace.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done,
but according to his mercy he saved us, by the
washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost - Titus 3:5

Paul never teaches what you teach. Search and find where Paul teaches the Gentiles that they must have "works"... you won't find it.

PS: Everywhere you find divisions and striving in the churches,
you will find "Works-Righteousness" taught.
Every cult teaches "Works-Righteousness" as well.

 

[eleos]

Abraham Proved His Faith With Works

Acts 26:20
20 "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
John 8:39
39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.
James 2:17-18
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
James 2:20-22
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:24
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:17-18
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
James 2:20-22
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:24
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
John 14:10-12
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
(NKJ)
XXX Even Abraham had to prove his faith with works.

Good works are the evidence that you have been saved by grace through faith.

It's not "our faith", it is His faith manifested in us when we accept and respond to Him and it is His good works through His Holy Spirit working within the believer.

There is nothing good in us without Jesus .... nothing.

Without Jesus dwelling within us there is no faith .... without Jesus dwelling within us there are no good works.

Jesus does not have to "prove" Himself to Himself. We do not "prove" anything to God .... He knows all things.

"fruit of the Spirit" ... is proof to others of the indwelling of Jesus' Holy Spirit in us ... how we live our lives is proof to others of the indwelling of Jesus' Holy Spirit ... we are changed ... over time. He changes us.

It's all about Jesus and what He does in us.

Hebrews 12

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance, and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you may not grow weary and lose heart.

 

[Squeaky]

Good works are the evidence that you have been saved by grace through faith.

It's not "our faith", it is His faith manifested in us when we accept and respond to Him and it is His good works through His Holy Spirit working within the believer.

There is nothing good in us without Jesus .... nothing.

Without Jesus dwelling within us there is no faith .... without Jesus dwelling within us there are no good works.

Jesus does not have to "prove" Himself to Himself. We do not "prove" anything to God .... He knows all things.

"fruit of the Spirit" ... is proof to others of the indwelling of Jesus' Holy Spirit in us ... how we live our lives is proof to others of the indwelling of Jesus' Holy Spirit ... we are changed ... over time. He changes us.

It's all about Jesus and what He does in us.

Hebrews 12

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance, and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you may not grow weary and lose heart.

I said
Look again at what it says. Who ever says they are a Christian and does not keep the commandments is a liar.

[Heb 12:1-4
1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares [us], and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of [our] faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.
4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

[1Jo 2:3-4, 6
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. ...
6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Jesus was our example, we must walk the walk.

[1Pe 2:19, 21
19 For this [is] commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. ...
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

 

[eleos]

The point I was making ... was/is .... It is not what "we ourselves" do, it's what Jesus does in us. It is His works in us ... and yes .... He will help us to keep His commandments and help us to walk in His ways. His work in the believer, changes us overtime as we abide in Him and Him in us ... but it is His works ... not ours. His faith working in us .... through us. Everything is His.

Galatians 2

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.