A Walk Through Revelation

[fzappa13]

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

The Nicolaitans receive two mentions in the Bible and both are here in Revelation. History does not record what their offence was. Though many have speculated what their offence might be I would not care to offer conjecture without some biblical backing and I fear there is none that I have encountered. However, a look at the meaning of the name Nicolas offers some possibilities:

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Nicolaus.
From nikos and Laodikeus; victorious over the people; Nicolaus, a heretic -- Nicolaus.

see GREEK nikos

see GREEK Laodikeus
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Laodicean.
From Laodikeia; a Laodicean, i.e. Inhabitant of Laodicia -- Laodicean.

see GREEK Laodikeia

As we shall see later, the Laodicean church is the lone church to not receive praise from Jesus in these two chapters. Perhaps there is some connection here.

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

Each of the seven letters to the seven angels ends with this admonition. Here all are invited to hear what is said in all of these letters; the only price of admission is to have an ear. I fear that not all are so equipped and so some will not be able to hear what is said in these two chapters. I find that unfortunate, but ... may God's will be done in all things.

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Each of the seven letters to the seven angels also ends with a promise and the price for it. The one offered here takes us from the last book in the Bible to the first and so we have come full circle.

 

[Nick M]

Though many have speculated what their offence might be I would not care to offer conjecture

I will.

8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Is this not what he told Israel in his earthly ministry? He even called the high priest the spawn of Satan.

12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,

‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

James told them to flee these things. There is a letter in the Dead Sea Scrolls saying these things also. It was surmised that James to the recipient.

18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,

‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.


24 “Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—

Teaching again that Israel must endure to the end and their faith (belief) will not save them.

Probably right in line with the others. Failing to do good. The pharisee sits in the seat of Moses. Therefore they are to do and observe what they are told. They are to do do the ceremony, while not leaving the weightier matters undone.

 

[Tambora]

A study of the terms "whore" and "harlot" as they occur in the Bible is very enlightening and will be useful as we move forward in this book.

It should since things like adultery, harlotry, marriage, and covenant are all compared to faithful fidelity or infidelity of having the LORD as your one and only.

 

[fzappa13]

I will.







Probably right in line with the others. Failing to do good. The pharisee sits in the seat of Moses. Therefore they are to do and observe what they are told. They are to do do the ceremony, while not leaving the weightier matters undone.

Of your three offerings, the second is the only one that actually references the Nicolaitans; but, this reference makes it clear that the objection to the Nicolaitans is separate from the other objections that you highlighted. I'm not sure how or why you are marring the two.

15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans,

 

[fzappa13]

It should since things like adultery, harlotry, marriage, and covenant are all compared to faithful fidelity or infidelity of having the LORD as your one and only.

You're getting into a subject that likely deserves it's own thread. Fidelity is what it is all about in both flesh and spirit. The former points to the latter I suspect. It's one of the things we are here to learn if I understand our plight correctly. Fidelity offered to whom is worthy. We are here to figure out who and what is worthy of our fidelity. Enough disappointments will eventually lead you to that which you seek if you are keeping score.

 

[Nick M]

Of your three offerings, the second is the only one that actually references the Nicolaitans

The Lord Jesus Christ said they were not keeping the law as required in circumcision. Multiple times right off the bat. I suggest his complaint with them is the same. And here you said you won't guess as to what was wrong....

 

[fzappa13]

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

As with the seven stars and candlesticks, this aspect of Jesus' character was also covered in the first chapter. It is no where covered in more detail than by Paul in 1Cor15. I'll not offer the whole chapter here for the sake of brevity though it is worthy of our consideration. For the purposes of this study I would offer this:

1Cor15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


Man, who is first born of the the flesh, is unique in that respect. Our savior and the rest of the Elohim were born of the spirit first. Jesus is our bridge from the physical to the spiritual. Our Sheppard, as it were.

 

[Right Divider]

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

As with the seven stars and candlesticks, this aspect of Jesus' character was also covered in the first chapter. It is no where covered in more detail than by Paul in 1Cor15. I'll not offer the whole chapter here for the sake of brevity though it is worthy of our consideration. For the purposes of this study I would offer this:

1Cor15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Man, who is first born of the the flesh, is unique in that respect. Our savior and the rest of the Elohim were born of the spirit first. Jesus is our bridge from the physical to the spiritual. Our Sheppard, as it were.

Truly a ridiculous post!

The FIRST and the LAST that John is referring to is NOT the first and last of 1 Cor 15:45. That is insanity!!!

This is the FIRST and LAST that John is referring to:

Isa 41:4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(41:4) Who hath wrought and done [it], calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I [am] he. ​

​

Isa 44:6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(44:6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God. ​

​

Isa 48:12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(48:12) ¶ Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I [am] he; I [am] the first, I also [am] the last. ​

 

[fzappa13]

As I suggested earlier, there is precious little in Revelation that cannot be found in the Old Testament. As with the menorah and the seven stars, we find O.T. scriptures offered to these "churches". Said "churches" being New Testament "churches."

Isa 48:1Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

2For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The LORD of hosts is his name.

3I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

4Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;
5I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.

6Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.

7They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

8Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

9For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.

10Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

11For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

12Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

13Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

 

[fzappa13]

As with much, if not all of what Jesus said, I think this phrase also has different layers of meaning.

Mark 9:35And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

There are others I could offer but ... each thing in it's own time.

 

[Right Divider]

As I suggested earlier, there is precious little in Revelation that cannot be found in the Old Testament.

There is a reason for that. Do you actually want to know what it is?

As with the menorah and the seven stars, we find O.T. scriptures offered to these "churches".

What are you talking about?

Said "churches" being New Testament "churches."

Begging the question is a fallacy.

 

[Right Divider]

As with much, if not all of what Jesus said, I think this phrase also has different layers of meaning.

Mark 9:35And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

There are others I could offer but ... each thing in it's own time.

This "first and last" also has nothing to do with what John is talking about in Revelation.

Your "Bible search analysis" is silly.

 

[fzappa13]

It should since things like adultery, harlotry, marriage, and covenant are all compared to faithful fidelity or infidelity of having the LORD as your one and only.

Being that we were told that we would not be given in marriage in the resurrection it occurred to me that the institution of marriage itself is a prophetic symbol of that marriage of which this book later speaks and, like all other prophecy, will one day have outlived its purpose.

 

[Derf]

Who is the US and the OUR? Read the entire passage:

Dont forget the YE's. They are the most helpful.

1Cor 10:1-6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(10:1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye​

Not "we"! Thus the "our fathers" can be easily referring to the Jews' fathers without including the Gentiles he's writing to.

should be ignorant, how that all our fathers ​

Jewish ancestors coming out of Eqypt.

were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; (10:2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; (10:3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat; (10:4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (10:5) But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. (10:6) Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.​

Jewish members of the church of Jesus.

Let's continue:

1 Corinthians 10:6-10 KJV — Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
(Jews were more likely to lust for stuff they weren't allowed to have--unclean things.)

Neither be ye idolaters,
(Gentiles were more likely to be idolaters, since they worshipped lots of idols)

as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication
(Jews, because they were God's bride from the OT)

, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ
(Jews, because they already knew that salvation was by the Christ, through the Jews)

, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
(Back to the Gentiles when he says "ye". The Corinthian church was rather worldly, and not as eager to settle into a spirit-led life.)

Paul is talking specifically to Israelite's here. He does that sometimes.

He does, but not here.

P.S. I not saying that WE cannot learn from it.

Yep!

 

[Right Divider]

Dont forget the YE's. They are the most helpful.

Not "we"! Thus the "our fathers" can be easily referring to the Jews' fathers without including the Gentiles he's writing to.

The US and OUR were from the translation that Tambora was using.

 

[Derf]

The US and OUR were from the translation that Tambora was using.

Sure. But that's beside the point. Paul didn't suddenly change audiences there in that chapter of 1 Corinthians 10 compared to ch 9.

 

[Right Divider]

Sure. But that's beside the point. Paul didn't suddenly change audiences there in that chapter of 1 Corinthians 10 compared to ch 9.

Paul's audiences were always mixed.

 

[Derf]

Paul's audiences were always mixed.

But the mixing is unnecessary for that passage.

 

[Nick M]

It should since things like adultery, harlotry, marriage, and covenant are all compared to faithful fidelity or infidelity of having the LORD as your one and only.

Agreed. God divorced Israel for adultery. And he saved me and the other Paul people like John W while we drink brewskies and eat bacon sandwiches.

 

[fzappa13]

Agreed. God divorced Israel for adultery. And he saved me and the other Paul people like John W while we drink brewskies and eat bacon sandwiches.

What! You're not of Apollos?!?!