A Reply to Dave Miller
- Thread starter Nineveh
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Post 75 read.
Most of it is right, but the Scripture teaches that yes, Jesus forgives us for all our sins at the moment of salvation; that's when he actually saves us. But, thereafter the Word teaches that it's continual. We must ask him for forgiveness and repent and die to self daily. You believe that, right?
I believe that if people think they only need to ask for forgiveness once at the moment of salvation, they could fall into a habit where they treat that as a license to sin (don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing you of that). They think that since their future sins are forgiven they have the right to act that way.
Most of it is right, but the Scripture teaches that yes, Jesus forgives us for all our sins at the moment of salvation; that's when he actually saves us. But, thereafter the Word teaches that it's continual. We must ask him for forgiveness and repent and die to self daily. You believe that, right?
I believe that if people think they only need to ask for forgiveness once at the moment of salvation, they could fall into a habit where they treat that as a license to sin (don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing you of that). They think that since their future sins are forgiven they have the right to act that way.
Just to let you know I didn't forget about ya.
The reason I believe forgiveness and repentance are continual is the Lord's Prayer. It says to pray daily "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." And the theologian Wayne Grudem summed it up better than I could:
"it is important to realize that faith and repentance are not confined to the beginning of the Christian life. They are rather attitudes of heart that continue throughout our lives as Christians...Therefore, although it is true that initial saving faith and initial repentance occur only once in our lives, and when they occur they constitute true conversion, nonetheless, the heart attitudes of repentance and faith only begin at conversion. These same attitudes should continue throughout the course of our Christian lives. Each day there should be heartfelt repentance for sins that we have committed, and faith in Christ to provide for our needs and to empower us to live the Christian life."
"it is important to realize that faith and repentance are not confined to the beginning of the Christian life. They are rather attitudes of heart that continue throughout our lives as Christians...Therefore, although it is true that initial saving faith and initial repentance occur only once in our lives, and when they occur they constitute true conversion, nonetheless, the heart attitudes of repentance and faith only begin at conversion. These same attitudes should continue throughout the course of our Christian lives. Each day there should be heartfelt repentance for sins that we have committed, and faith in Christ to provide for our needs and to empower us to live the Christian life."
Ecumenicist
New member
The Edge said:
This is a truth I discovered through working in addiction chaplaining.
People that "repent once," and find themselves back in addiction, are left
completely hopeless, because conventional Christian wisdom is the old
"well then, you never really were saved in the first place." And in this
setting, as in many others, people without hope literally, physically die.
But if repentence is approached as a step by step process, even a 12 step
process, an interaction occurs between the person and the Holy Spirit that is
miraculous. That interaction is one of asking for help from God, gathering some
strength and healing, and from that new strength, moving forward more and
more, until eventually true healing is achieved. But any addict will tell you, even
once a state of true healing is achieved, one must still, daily, continue to orient
one's self towards God, for the deadly risk of backslide and relapse is always
present.
What's true for addicts is true for everyone: Repentence is a continuing,
ongoing. lifetime process of turning one's Whole Will towards God.
Paul confessed an ongoing seperation within himself, His Spirit desired and
indeed was perfected in Christ, but his flesh still was weak.
The goal of true repentence is healing the seperation that exists between
Spirit and flesh, and in that healing finding Wholeness in God through
Christ.
Dave
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Ecumenicist
New member
The Edge said:
One more comment though, qualifying this quote.
Once particular sins are confessed to Christ in contrition, although the scars
remain which contribute to our wisdom, we can in fact let those sins go, for they
are truly forgiven and forgotten by God.
In other words, the process of continuous repentence is not one of dwelling
upon our sinful past, it is truley past. Its a task of forgiving ourselves and
others and moving boldly on, yes making more mistakes as we go, but
having an ongoing attitude of contrition which allows us to continue to ask for
and receive forgiveness as we continue to heal and grow closer to Christ.
Nineveh
Merely Christian
Hey dave,
When you going to at least attempt to practice what you keep trying to preach and repent of bearing false witness against me? It has to start in the heart though doesn't it? You really aren't sorry for lying about me. Your last attempt was nothing more than making excuses for why your heart is so hard.
When you going to at least attempt to practice what you keep trying to preach and repent of bearing false witness against me? It has to start in the heart though doesn't it? You really aren't sorry for lying about me. Your last attempt was nothing more than making excuses for why your heart is so hard.
Ecumenicist
New member
Nineveh said:
Nin,
I'm sorry you interpreted it that way.
Dave
Nineveh
Merely Christian
Dave Miller said:
In English:
Nineveh, I'm not sorry I lied about you. I'm not sorry I didn't go back to check my facts before I went pages and pages trying to prove myself right. I'm only sorry that I am still trying to preach about repentance and forgiveness while letting my unrepented false witness stand as a testimony against me.
Mateo
New member
Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Ecumenicist
New member
In English:
Nineveh, I didn't lie about you. Several times I went back to check my facts on
an ongoing basis as we discussed Paul's struggles with sin. I'm only sorry that
you misinterpret my postings, and I'm sorry that you feel the need to continually
insult me.
Dave
Nineveh, I didn't lie about you. Several times I went back to check my facts on
an ongoing basis as we discussed Paul's struggles with sin. I'm only sorry that
you misinterpret my postings, and I'm sorry that you feel the need to continually
insult me.
Dave
Nineveh
Merely Christian
It's your heart issue dave.
What's insulting is you presume to teach about repentance and forgiveness and can't seem to apply what Christ taught. If your brother sins ( false witness ) rebuke him ( this thread ), and if he repents, forgive him. The last two parts are what you keep trying to teach others about, but you can't find room in your own heart to listen to Christ on the matter.
What's insulting is you presume to teach about repentance and forgiveness and can't seem to apply what Christ taught. If your brother sins ( false witness ) rebuke him ( this thread ), and if he repents, forgive him. The last two parts are what you keep trying to teach others about, but you can't find room in your own heart to listen to Christ on the matter.
Ecumenicist
New member
Nineveh said:
When Christ was being nailed to the Cross, He prayed for the forgiveness of
those that were murdering Him. They were unrepentent, on the contrary
they were in the process of spiking His hands and feet to a wooden Cross.
But He forgave them.