8/6 Republican Debate Thread

[Foxfire]

That is funny! They said the same about Ronald Reagan
when he ran for Governor and won. Then they said it again
when he ran for President and won. The rinos always try to
get rid of the candidates who are not bought and paid for.
Occasionally one makes it through, and that is how we get
a Republican President. Liberal Repubs like McCain and Romney
are a recipe for another loss.

"Rinos" seems an oddly inappropriate term in this application. Differentiating between those who are loyal to the GOP and those who openly profess no such attachment. :think:

Trump is the very definition of "rino" in it's truest sense.

 

[Foxfire]

Justin Raimondo ‏
The real GOP debate was between the Fox News team and Trump. Trump won.

Trump was certainly quick to snatch defeat from the jaws of any apparent victory with his post-debate antics.

“Megan had blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever"

Even the GOP was finally forced to express it's contempt of Trumps low brow misogyny.

"There are bounds of what’s acceptable in our discourse and they’re not different for you, or me, or someone else. I’m not going to have a guy on stage with my wife and daughter in the crowd who thinks a tough question from a woman is because of hormones," RedState organizer Erick Erickson, a prominent conservative voice, told the Washington Post.

http://news.yahoo.com/trump-dumped-from-conservative-gathering-over-remarks-about-megyn-kelly-124628606.html#

 

[jgarden]

No kidding. In America it used to not be so. Social security, medicare, medicaid, AFDC, disability, Obamacare, unemployment.....took this country to the cellar. Those things to help poor people only made it easy to be poor. Good thinking. lain:

The flaw in that argument is that all those nations with greater upward mobility than the US all have those social programs and much more!

 

[aikido7]

It was obvious to me that FOX "News" was deliberately trying to marginalize Trump. Scott Walker wasn't asked about his ethics investigation, nor was Christie confronted about "BridgeGate."
And the good doctor Ben Carson was not asked about his "slavery" and "holocaust" metaphors applied to the ACA.

 

[Foxfire]

It was obvious to me that FOX "News" was deliberately trying to marginalize Trump. Scott Walker wasn't asked about his ethics investigation, nor was Christie confronted about "BridgeGate."
And the good doctor Ben Carson was not asked about his "slavery" and "holocaust" metaphors applied to the ACA.

It wasn't Megan Kelly that was the Donald's downfall, it was his MOUTH after the fact.

Instead of returning to issues, Trump chose to take it to the gutter!

 

[Nick M]

The flaw in that argument is that all those nations with greater upward mobility than the US all have those social programs and much more!

The answer to that prior to the "safety nets" is zero. So it is not a flaw, but it is what you want.

 

[jgarden]

INTERGENERATIONAL CORRELATION BETWEEN THE EARNINGS OF FATHERS AND SONS IN OECD COUNTRIES

COUNTRY - INTERGENERATIONAL ELASTICITY
************************************
Slovenia 0.54

Chile 0.52

Italy 0.50

United Kingdom 0.50

United States 0.47

Switzerland 0.46

France 0.41

Spain 0.40

Japan 0.34

Germany 0.32

New Zealand 0.29

Sweden 0.27

Australia 0.26

Canada 0.19

Finland 0.18

Norway 0.17

Denmark 0.16

The higher the intergenerational elasticity, the lower the extent of mobility.

http://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lags-peer-countries-mobility/

The higher the "elasticity" number, the greater one's birth circumstances (father's income) has on determining one's later position (son's income) in society.

The data indicates that one is far more likely to experience the "American Dream" (upward mobility) in "socialist" countries like Denmark, Norway and Finland than in the more capitalist nations such as the USA.

Other charts indicate that this marked decrease in upward social mobility in America started in the 1980's with the Reagan Administration, "trickle down" economics and the increased concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands.

American conservatives, therefore, find themselves in a dilemma - their core values have created policies that are counterproductive when it comes to promoting their central ideological justification for capitalism, "The American Dream."

Conversely its the socialist countries and their polices, which American conservatives have so long treated with disdain, that have succeeded in producing societies that are far more conducive to "The American Dream."

 

[annabenedetti]

It was obvious to me that FOX "News" was deliberately trying to marginalize Trump. Scott Walker wasn't asked about his ethics investigation, nor was Christie confronted about "BridgeGate."
And the good doctor Ben Carson was not asked about his "slavery" and "holocaust" metaphors applied to the ACA.

I agree with you to a point, especially wrt the Christie and Carson issues. I didn't care for the Murdochy feel of the whole thing, and the way the debate was started with that show of hands that seemed a contrived setting of the tone for the Gong Trump show that followed.

But Trump had his chance to go against character and show some class. That he couldn't control himself or his ego is his responsibility alone.

I'm still amazed that anyone finds him credible. Oh wait... no I'm not.

 

[jgarden]

When you are the "frontrunner," the tougher questions go with the territory - the whole idea of this process is to find a candidate who can withstand the demands and pressures of a long campaign.

Trump should be using these debates as an opportunity to deal with questions about his "dirty laundry" that are bound to emerge during the real campaign at this time next year.

If Trump's temperment can't handle the likes of "Megan Kelly," does he think its going to get any easier when the Democratic "heavy hitters" start attacking him for every misstep he's ever made in the last 50 years?

Trump's good at criticizing others, but thinks he's entitled to a "free ride" when it comes to being criticized.

 

[aikido7]

Is anyone else keeping tabs?

http://www.factcheck.org/

 

[aikido7]

Here's More...


http://www.factcheck.org/2015/08/factchecking-the-gop-debate-late-edition/

 

[rexlunae]

Is anyone else keeping tabs?

http://www.factcheck.org/

Here's More...


http://www.factcheck.org/2015/08/factchecking-the-gop-debate-late-edition/

Facts? At the Republican debate? I feel like you've missed the point.

 

[chrysostom]

But Trump had his chance to go against character and show some class. That he couldn't control himself or his ego is his responsibility alone.

I'm still amazed that anyone finds him credible. Oh wait... no I'm not.

unfortunately we need their votes to have any chance at all to beat the democrats

trump will put hillary in the white house

he will own a president

 

[annabenedetti]

I wonder how many voters who were already pessimistic about the state of American politics will just stay home on Election Day.

I read an interesting take on his appeal being based not on logic or reason but on emotional triggers. That makes sense. Mob mentality. It's interesting to study, as is the adulation of the THall types.

 

[bybee]

I wonder how many voters who were already pessimistic about the state of American politics will just stay home on Election Day.

I read an interesting take on his appeal being based not on logic or reason but on emotional triggers. That makes sense. Mob mentality. It's interesting to study, as is the adulation of the THall types.

My sister adores Trump! She is so angry over many of the things going on presently through government that he appeals to her as a fresh breeze.
I would consider him more as a blast of fetid air, but then, he is appealing to a segment of our society that is fed up big time.

 

[kmoney]

I wonder how many voters who were already pessimistic about the state of American politics will just stay home on Election Day.

I read an interesting take on his appeal being based not on logic or reason but on emotional triggers. That makes sense. Mob mentality. It's interesting to study, as is the adulation of the THall types.

I agree that his appeal is mostly emotional. People are upset with gov't and he's coming from outside the political spectrum so he's exciting and a breath of fresh air. Try something new, the blunt, gets stuff done business man. But I have to believe (and hope) that eventually that emotional appeal will wear off and they will see that he wouldn't be a good president, if only because of his complete lack of class and respectability.

The most I could possibly say of Trump is that he'd be a good adviser when it comes to trade/economic issues.

 

[kmoney]

I agree with you to a point, especially wrt the Christie and Carson issues. I didn't care for the Murdochy feel of the whole thing, and the way the debate was started with that show of hands that seemed a contrived setting of the tone for the Gong Trump show that followed.

I agree about the initial question being contrived for Trump and it was dumb for Paul to jump in and criticize him. That only empowers him more.

But Trump had his chance to go against character and show some class. That he couldn't control himself or his ego is his responsibility alone.

I don't know if he could control his ego if he wanted to but he wouldn't even want to because it was still serving his political interests. Now, after the latest Kelly dust up, he might have to find a more toned down approach and we'll have to see if he can. But considering his response to being cut from the RedState event he's not going to.

I'm still amazed that anyone finds him credible. Oh wait... no I'm not.

:mock: THall

 

[bybee]

I agree that his appeal is mostly emotional. People are upset with gov't and he's coming from outside the political spectrum so he's exciting and a breath of fresh air. Try something new, the blunt, gets stuff done business man. But I have to believe (and hope) that eventually that emotional appeal will wear off and they will see that he wouldn't be a good president, if only because of his complete lack of class and respectability.

The most I could possibly say of Trump is that he'd be a good adviser when it comes to trade/economic issues.

Good points!

 

[annabenedetti]

Facts? At the Republican debate? I feel like you've missed the point.

I left the GOP in 2012 and changed my registration to unaffiliated. I thought it was a good decision at the time, but from here it looks even better than it did then.

 

[annabenedetti]

I agree that his appeal is mostly emotional. People are upset with gov't and he's coming from outside the political spectrum so he's exciting and a breath of fresh air. Try something new, the blunt, gets stuff done business man. But I have to believe (and hope) that eventually that emotional appeal will wear off and they will see that he wouldn't be a good president, if only because of his complete lack of class and respectability.

Anyone who supports him would have to suppress their normative values to do it. It's the only way they can resolve the cognitive dissonance.

The most I could possibly say of Trump is that he'd be a good adviser when it comes to trade/economic issues.

I wouldn't even say that - this is the guy who says China is killing us, and yet his Trump-branded merchandise is made in China.