58 Dead, 500 Plus Wounded

patrick jane

patrick jane

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This Charming Manc said:
I find the desire to wish to create a story in which this a government attack on its own people, with no supporting evidence frightening.

This stuff happens when you have 300,000,000 guns in circulation is a much more believable explanation than either that a pro gun government is running false flag operations against its people to ban guns.
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I don't "wish to create a story" and I didn't come up with the title of the video or the video itself. It never explains what they think the "false flag" is, so I thought I heard two guns going at the same time. I was guessing.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
There's a lot of guys out there who finally saw the video clips, guys with deep knowledge of a lot of high-powered weapons, who say many things about this story are not adding up. Don't let the leftist to show up every time an incident like this happens deter you into thinking you're nuts when you're not. This operation was more than just one old guy. The people who knew him say nothing about this is making sense.

They jabbered for months about Trump's ties to Russia and that's gone absolutely nowhere, as predicted. You already know their disinfo scam, ignore it.
 
J

Jonahdog

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Banned
musterion said:
There's a lot of guys out there who finally saw the video clips, guys with deep knowledge of a lot of high-powered weapons, who say many things about this story are not adding up. Don't let the leftist to show up every time an incident like this happens deter you into thinking you're nuts when you're not. This operation was more than just one old guy. The people who knew him say nothing about this is making sense.

They jabbered for months about Trump's ties to Russia and that's gone absolutely nowhere, as predicted. You already know their disinfo scam, ignore it.
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Alex Jones fan? Yep, let's listen to those "guys" who have a lot-o-knowledge. You're just another moron ready and willing to spread stupid stupid rumors.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
Jonahdog said:
That is your source? You cannot be that stupid...oh wait it was on the internet, it supports my basic beliefs, it must be true---see how that works.
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He is stupid for considering the possibility and not plugging his metaphorical ears to reported news? Did he say he is convinced it's a false flag?

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ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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Jonahdog said:
Alex Jones fan? Yep, let's listen to those "guys" who have a lot-o-knowledge. You're just another moron ready and willing to spread stupid stupid rumors.
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You don't think CNN and the Russia conspiracy was about spreading stupid rumors? Why is one real news in your mind and the other mere rumors?

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ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
patrick jane said:
I don't "wish to create a story" and I didn't come up with the title of the video or the video itself. It never explains what they think the "false flag" is, so I thought I heard two guns going at the same time. I was guessing.
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You are saying you are convinced of the story either. You are allowing for the possibility. You are waiting like me for contradictory evidence to the conclusion.

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T

Truster

New member
ClimateSanity said:
A gun also makes saving your life much easier.

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If a man is fearful that the Almighty would send someone to kill him then the man needs to ask why? I've questioned pastors that maintain the need to wear a concealed weapon behind the pulpit. Same question needs to be asked? If the Almighty wants a man dead then there is nothing available to save that man, nothing.
 
C

chair

Well-known member
CherubRam said:


Musterion

I like that. "Disarmed citizens become subjects."

Reminds me of England.
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You managed to find the one country with a constitutional monarchy. A semantic win at best. Hurrah. Do you need a list of all the countries that have strict law enforcement and the citizens are not "subjects"?

I live in one.
 
CabinetMaker

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
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This Charming Manc said:
First all, thoughts, prayers and condolences to those hurt, their families and all my friends over there in the states.

Today's a day when us Brits see this on the news we are shocked and saddened and many ask the questions. "Why don't they get this? How many times does have to happen for it to shrink in?"

Even though i'm unrepentant raging gun control advocate with you guys. I do listen and hear your position and your arguments.

I talk about the link the constitution makes between freedom and gun ownership. I talk about Americans wanting to take personal responsibility for there families safety. I can relay the fear of armed criminal elements in society and people not wanting to face that unarmed.

But after doing that I look at the stats again, I look at the news again, I see the pictures, I then think about the thousands of Americans who die every year, who probably wouldn't die if they lived in a country with better gun laws, and I have to be that 'stoopid' liberal voice.

A few perceptions from someone out of the situation who doesn't really have an axe to grind, but feels he needs to speak the truth as he sees it to friends.

  • Thousands of Americans suffer directly and indirectly every year from gun crime that they would not suffer if they lived in a country with European style gun laws.
  • The basic freedoms shared by people in Europe are Similar to those in the states even though we don't high levels of gun ownership
  • The Levels of other violent crime are broadly similar so we don't see gun violence transfer to the use of cars, bombs and knives taking anywhere near the numbers of lives guns take in the US, those things happen but at similar rates to the US.
  • We've had a bad year in terms of terrorist attacks with bombs and vehicles used in Europe, real bad, you've probably seen the news. But ball parking it america still see's 50 gun deaths for every terrorist associated death in the Europe. (about 200 to 10,000, real ball parked figures)
  • Incidents like today's thought they grab the news, its just the tip of the iceberg. For every person killed today 100 to 300 more Americans will die this year by guns dependent on how you want to read the stats.

I hope everyone here and their loved ones are well, and hope these perceptions at least make you think. I know it is not a popular view in these parts, but it need saying.
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Canada has similar rates of gun ownership as the U.S. But they don't have the gun violence that we do. Why is that? Are their guns actually different? Do their guns not work when called upon to shoot into a crowd? Or is it something to do with people?
 
This Charming Manc

This Charming Manc

Well-known member
CabinetMaker said:
Canada has similar rates of gun ownership as the U.S. But they don't have the gun violence that we do. Why is that? Are their guns actually different? Do their guns not work when called upon to shoot into a crowd? Or is it something to do with people?
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Hi CM, I hope you are well?

First I don't think your assertion that Canada has similar gun rates is quite true. From why I have read the Canadian gun ownership rates are about 1/3 of that of the USA. What is interesting is that abut 90% of Canadian guns are rifles and shotguns as opposed to handguns which are the main guns used in crimes. Also carrying handguns in Canada is highly restricted.

However those differences would by no means account for the vast differences in Canadian and US gun crime stats.

An observation of mine is that countries with very high gun crime rate tend to have a number of factors, good access to guns, strong and obviously unjust inequalities of wealth, and significant gang/crime culture and drug issues.

I would suggest that the Canadian difference is a mix of these factors and better gun control. though i've not done any research on this but its a pattern which i've spotted when nosing through data.

Cheers
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Jonahdog said:
Alex Jones fan? Yep, let's listen to those "guys" who have a lot-o-knowledge. You're just another moron ready and willing to spread stupid stupid rumors.
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Alex Jones, the guy who made out Sandy Hook was a 'publicity stunt'...:plain:

Musterion is a complete cretin and frankly a real piece of work to boot with his "attempts" at cheap political point scoring in relation to this horrific event. It's a wonder he doesn't check under the bed for a 'boogeyman' before he goes to sleep...
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
chair said:
You managed to find the one country with a constitutional monarchy. A semantic win at best. Hurrah. Do you need a list of all the countries that have strict law enforcement and the citizens are not "subjects"?

I live in one.
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Eh, he thinks we're all gonna be under Muslim rule in ten years or so across the pond so that tells you the mentality of the guy.

:kookoo:
 
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