11-year-old Gang-Rape Victim: Should She Be Able To Legally Abort?

[WizardofOz]

The pattern emerges

The pattern emerges

kiwimacahau - you're dodging the questions...again. It's your m.o. :chicken:

Abortion is legal and should remain so. Whether or not you like my view on abortion it is no more gobbledegook than yours. Human life may well begin at conception but the zygote / foetus is not more valuable than the mother.

:liberals:
I never said the zygote / foetus is more valuable, did I? Maybe you missed when I said just a few posts ago "False dichotomy with the "greater importance" bit. In pregnancy, there are two patients of equal importance. Value them both. You place no value on the unborn at all. This is not an equitable approach."

But I don't think you did miss it.

Did you?

 

[WizardofOz]

I'm increasingly uncomfortable placing a rape victim in yet another situation where she has no choice to make.

And if she is 5 months pregnant?

 

[Granite]

And if she is 5 months pregnant?

Your question doesn't address the issue.

There are no winners in a scenario based on the OP. Just grappling with the implications of removing choice, again, from a rape victim. This strikes me intuitively as...dubious, at best.

 

[WizardofOz]

I guess it is all comes down to which words you use.

The baby is either an unborn human child or an undifferentiated blob of cells.

It's all a red herring anyway. Until a human makes it out of the womb, they're fair game if the circumstance are too extreme for pro-choice sensibilities.

Tragic situation? End the pregnancy. :sigh:

 

[WizardofOz]

Your question doesn't address the issue

What is the issue, in your opinion?

There are no winners in a scenario based on the OP.

Agreed. I simply argue against adding to the list of losers.

Just grappling with the implications of removing choice, again, from a rape victim. This strikes me intuitively as...dubious, at best.

This doesn't address my question. Does it matter if the rape victim is far enough along? Or of a certain (young) age?

 

[Granite]

What is the issue, in your opinion?

Thought I'd addressed that: The removal of yet another choice from a rape victim. One could even say the most important decision she'll ever face is no longer hers to make, which makes it no "decision" at all.

Whether you like it or not, this is what it boils down to: Telling a victim of sexual assault she must do such and such with her body, regardless of her wishes. This proposed solution can be couched, sugarcoated, and honey-dipped all the live-long day, but that's the essential of the argument: She will carry the pregnancy to term, and her opinion is ultimately of no value. Agreement is incidental; opposition is ignored.

Agreed. I simply argue against adding to the list of losers.

I'd argue we should consider compounding the pain of a rape victim.

This doesn't address my question. Does it matter if the rape victim is far enough along? Or of a certain (young) age?

I'm not sure. The prudent thing would probably be to take these incidents on a case by case basis.

 

[WizardofOz]

I'm not sure. The prudent thing would probably be to take these incidents on a case by case basis.

Who decides on a case by case basis? Should the mother's choice always trump those of doctors, law makers, etc or does it depend on the circumstance?

 

[Granite]

Who decides on a case by case basis? Should the mother's choice always trump those of doctors, law makers, etc or does it depend on the circumstance?

Again, not sure. In the case of an eleven-year-old, say, her opinion should absolutely be taken into account along with her family/caregivers. If there are medical concerns to be addressed obviously the recommendations of physicians should definitely be heeded. If we're talking about a thirtysomething woman, the dynamics completely change and it's a whole different ballgame. I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be allowing one single outside arbiter to have the authority to rule definitively on situations like this. Too much is at play.

 

[Nazaroo]

If she is granted the right to abort this child,
she should also be granted the right to geld the 20 rapists first.

They should be placed in General Population,
because other convicted criminals have rights too,
to express their feelings to these 20 muslim queers.

After the gelding, and the life-sentences,
she should be given time to see if she can forgive the corpse of the one who's DNA
tests positive for the 'father'.

 

[quip]

It's all a red herring anyway. Until a human makes it out of the womb, they're fair game if the circumstance are too extreme for pro-choice sensibilities.

Tragic situation? End the pregnancy. :sigh:

The rape wasn't a "tragic situation"?

Perhaps, abortion is the conclusion to this "tragic situation"...or are you taking the typical "blame the victim" stand here? :sigh:

 

[WizardofOz]

Head scratcher

Head scratcher

The rape wasn't a "tragic situation"?

:liberals:
Yes, the rape is the tragic situation. What else could I be referring to?

Perhaps, abortion is the conclusion to this "tragic situation"...or are you taking the typical "blame the victim" stand here? :sigh:

:liberals:
How am I blaming the victim by not wanting to kill an innocent human?

But of a non sequitur there, don't you think?

 

[Granite]

Yes, the rape is the tragic situation. What else could I be referring to?

You weren't very clear, then, with this: "Tragic situation? End the pregnancy." It's easy enough to interpret that a couple different ways.:cheers:

 

[WizardofOz]

You weren't very clear, then, with this: "Tragic situation? End the pregnancy." It's easy enough to interpret that a couple different ways.:cheers:

Such as? :idunno:

 

[Granite]

Such as? :idunno:

It could be construed the "tragic situation" you're referring to is the end of the pregnancy. I can see where quip's coming from, that's how I read it too at first.

 

[WizardofOz]

1. Tragic situation?
2. End the pregnancy
The tragic situation would have to be something other than the ending of the pregnancy. If it was unclear, my apologies. I clarified so no point in dwelling.

 

[intojoy]

I know a woman who was abused from the age of 8-11 and gave birth at 12. Never saw her son since giving to adoption. What?

 

[quip]

1. Tragic situation?
2. End the pregnancy
The tragic situation would have to be something other than the ending of the pregnancy. If it was unclear, my apologies. I clarified so no point in dwelling.

Fair enough.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[WizardofOz]

By forcing the girl to have this rape conceived child.

Explain how opposing abortion somehow equates blaming rape victims...

 

[quip]

Explain how opposing abortion somehow equates blaming rape victims...

First, I see how this could be interpreted in two ways.

Second, You can't see how (supporting) forcing a rape victim to give birth against her will...is not forced punishment, times two?

 

[WizardofOz]

First, I see how this could be interpreted in two ways.

Second, You can't see how (supporting) forcing a rape victim to give birth against her will...is not forced punishment, times two?

You said "victim blaming". I wanted you to explain how opposing abortion, even in situations of rape, equate "victim blaming".