Oddly enough, what is being lost in this whole scenario is that there are TWO innocent lives, not one.
Caring about and supporting the mother does not equate to dismissing and destroying the OTHER innocent life.
11-year-old Gang-Rape Victim: Should She Be Able To Legally Abort?
- Thread starter WizardofOz
- Start date
Oddly enough, what is being lost in this whole scenario is that there are TWO innocent lives, not one.
Caring about and supporting the mother does not equate to dismissing and destroying the OTHER innocent life.
illusionray
New member
Well....you can't say you haven't been warned.
For the rapist, I agree.
That is because you are only seeing a crime and not the other innocent child in this scenario ... the unborn baby. I have seen absolutely no hatred towards the rape victim, actually quite the opposite.
OTOH, it has been assumed that the girl in question would automatically have health issues and WANT to abort. Should the victim be forced to abort (by the parent/parents)? IF they are forced to abort, how is that their *choice*?
I don't want her to endure the murder of her child.
That seems like a no brainer.
Straw man and you know it, the rapists should be executed humanly.
You would kill your great grand daughter.
And lie the your grand daughter about it.
What are you going to do when she finds out?
And she asks you why you killed her baby?
The body of an 11 year old female child is not ready to handle a pregnancy along with the trauma of labor and delivery.
What will it take to get a man to comprehend what is going on here?
It is okay to execute the rapist/s? That is also murder.
Along with the physical trauma of rape we must add the possibility of pregnancy?
Have you any idea of the effects such a thing has on an 11 year old child?
Is the female only to be viewed as an incubator for life?
Go out into this world and look at 11 year girls as they play and study and help within their families.
The 11 year old child who becomes pregnant due to a traumatic rape is no longer a child, nor is she really a living person anymore. She is a dead person walking.
This is not an intellectual exercise to be viewed from an Ivory Tower inhabited exclusively by men.
This is an act of depravity against which all females must constantly
be on guard.
Ummm...yes.
Here's the thing: Ideally, the eleven-year-old wouldn't even have gotten to this point. After the assault every step should have been taken to ensure there was zero chance she conceived. Having said that, what happens to the rape victim after conception still appears to be secondary in your judgment, and it's primary in mine.
Everything I've read about this situation indicates an eleven-year-old giving birth is "high risk," which wins the No Sugar Sherlock Award of the Year. And not to put too fine a point on it but I suspect the odds from complications (say, from injury, or infection) would also be higher than the norm. Let's be blunt: I consider the pregnancy of a rape victim, especially a pre-pubescent gang rape victim, to be, by nature, an "automatic health issue."
To address your second point.
An eleven-year-old by definition cannot have consensual sex. Every form of sex she engages in would be construed as sexual assault (even if she claims to have consented).
If we don't trust a child with the decision to procreate by what standard can you reasonably believe she has the capacity to choose to carry her pregnancy to term?
We don't give her the choice to conceive. What is the basis for her having the choice to carry?
How does killing the kid make the rapist lose?
That's her kid to. Why does her kid have to die?
You're going to kill her kid, how is that not traumatizing?
The kid is a member of that family.
See, I think you have it upside down. Killing the kid doesn't undo anything. It just adds more stuff.
You don't know that.
I'm pretty sure I get it.
I wouldn't say no to some bacon though.
Yes execute the twenty gang rapists and no that's not murder.
That's what we're discussing, a pregnant, raped 11 year old.
How about the effects of killing her baby? How's she going to feel about that?
She's to be viewed as a Mother, that didn't used to be a bad thing.
You want to teach them to kill cumbersome family members?
Sure she is, she got raped, she didn't grow up all the sudden and go to College.
Yes, she is.
No, she's not, she's actually two people living until you all decide to do her a "favor" and kill her kid.
Perhaps a ball of dirt viewed by humans?
If you mean letting someone kill your kids then I agree.
Primary in mine as well, not killing someones kids is pretty primary.
I'm not familer with that award.
High risk includes women over 40 and all sorts of people in between who don't want their kids killed.
No doubt, a health issue for two people.
Two family members.
Okay
Because;
You don't kill your kids.
Because we don't encourage people to kill their kids.
You're referring to legal adults who can make their own decisions, which goes back to my closing point.
You're basically saying we can't trust an eleven-year-old to correctly judge sexual matters...but we can trust them with matters of life and death. Even if it involves their own death, potentially. And all this after a trauma that could scar them for life, and disrupt their capacity for any kind of reasonable, logical, objective thought. We expect this out of adults, fool, not children a decade shy of being able to buy a brew.
How exactly does this work? Since when's a child who can't consent to conception in any kind of position to provide a fully informed and rational response to the thread's hypothetical scenario?
Strikes me as a bit of a double standard.
What other life and death decisions would you be comfortable allowing an eleven-year-old to make?
By what standard would you oppose an eleven-year-old's claim that he or she had consented to a sexual encounter?
P.S. By the way, no absolutists here seemed to take this possibility into account: What if the girl absolutely insists on having an abortion?
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You have deliberately misconstrued all that I have tried to say. You are not a female.
At no time have I stated that abortion is a choice. I am stating that this child did not plan to bring a child into the world as the result of loving, committed consensual sex. Since this cannot happen to you you cannot know what it does to a female child let alone an adult female.
I m a nurse and I do know that the evidence is quite conclusive that an 11 year old who becomes pregnant is at very high risk of complications including loss of both mother and child.
I am "very" pro-life. If it were my daughter (no matter the age), I would not encourage her to have an abortion.
It just might be that she does not want to have to live with the memory of a violent rape ... but she would not want to add the horrific memory of also murdering her own child (which is, at least, 1/2 hers).
To me this would make her a "double victim" of a crime.
Now, if men raped a child (not just some consensual sexual experience), then they need to be held accountable to the fullest extent that the law allows. After being given a chance to beg for forgiveness of the LORD for their souls ... then justice should be administered.
If a medical doctor should convince my juvenile daughter and myself that having the baby might threaten her life... then I would give my daughter the final say. I would press charges that the rapists are responsible for murder as well as rape.
I can think of nothing worse than for a pregnant rape victim to also have to carry the burden of murder upon her own shoulders.
Now, the baby could be raised by the woman and her family ... or given up for adoption. Only heroes can make a selfless sacrifice for the life of another person.
Often women get abortions because the sperm donor or family members have abandoned her... or she fears that they will. Pregnant women are very vulnerable on many levels... and rape is certainly a crime that is most heinous. Any flippant dispersement of male sperm is a crime against women.
Modern women wake up ... you are not sexually liberated... you are still the one who get pregnant and either delivers a child or kills your child!!!
1PeaceMaker
New member
Yup, case closed. As a trusted authority figure you could probably talk her into suicide, too. That'll really clean things up. (not)
It has everything to do with my point. But to understand - that will require critical thinking skills. Put your thinking cap on. I know you have one lying around somewhere.
Motherhood began when she was impregnated against her will. All parents can do is respect the life inside her or take the responsibility of killing an innocent. Something they shouldn't have to think about at all but such is the state of our society.
The point that the possibility of motherhood is already in the cards for her. That she will most likely choose motherhood freely in the future and that no matter what happens her body has changed in the way it is designed and no abortion will change it back.
In fact, the natural outcome of young motherhood is better fertility and a reduction in the risks of certain diseases. The baby is not a cancer but a valuable human being and her family member.
Throwing out that she may have consensual sex and wish to murder her child in the future is nothing but a dodge.
And isn't that what we are here for? So....
Abortion is the whim. Forced impregnation was the whim. Nature taking it's course with life is not a whim.
She will if a trusted authority takes her in where they will take off her clothes, hold her down and go into that already traumatized part of her body to re-traumatize it while denying her a living relative - all to please themselves that a "bastard child" won't be born. This is exactly the problem with forced abortion.
...And?
Doormat
New member
Present the evidence you claim is conclusive. What are the specific life-threatening complications?
1PeaceMaker
New member
As a small sized female (under 5 feet) who has given birth naturally 6 times and has daughters in a range of ages, including 11 years old I honestly can't relate to what you have written.
I was capable of vaginal birth when an OB predicted I could not do it. I did it so well I didn't need any intervention, not even pain meds. A testimony to the adaptable and capable bodies we have, and to the Christian, the wise design of our bodies.
I can't relate to what you said about girls or women - at all.
Are you a rape survivor? How can you say she's not a child anymore let alone a dead person walking?
Shouldn't we use the internet to see if child-mothers can look back and relate to what you say, if we want an expert on the matter?
Christian Liberty
Well-known member
I disagree, because the unborn child's right to live has nothing to do with the rapist. Kill the rapist for all I care. Let the innocent child live.
It wouldn't, but that doesn't absolve me of the responsibility to tell you
Well....you can't say you haven't been warned.
Exactly.
What if I absolutely insist that I have a right to murder my 11 year old brother? So what? Who cares? You likely wouldn't be able to physically stop me, but you could charge me with murder afterwards.
Although the possibility should remain (To prevent anyone from having an abortion in this type of case precisely because she could get away with it) I'd probably not support charging a woman with anything if she was raped and then decided to have an abortion... seeing as that decision would likely be made based on severe emotional trauma. I think that's the kind of situation where mercy could come into play. I know Lighthouse is going to disagree with me here, but I wouldn't press charges against a woman, particularly an 11 year old, who had an abortion while suffering from the severe emotional trauma of rape.
The "doctor" is another story entirely.
I'm pretty sure the morning after pill doesn't always prevent implantation, even though it is possible for that to happen, so I'd say that should remain an option, seeing as it is still intended to prevent conception, despite the possibility of it doing something else.
Then stop claiming that what you're preaching is a Christian doctrine, if you can't defend it Biblically. Screw the Qu'ran