Bradley D
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You do not know where you came from and where you are going?
1 JOHN ONLY ISRAEL CAN BE BORN AGAIN
- Thread starter DougE
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You do not know where you came from and where you are going?
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John is not writing about the EXACT SAME thing as Paul is in Titus. Again.... I know that you will not understand that.
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Rabbit trail... I did not say that.... Read the scripture.... it says that about EVERYONE that is born of the Spirit per John 3:8.
Titus 3:5 is not saying born again but is conveying we were dead and made alive as can be seen in this verse:
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
2 Corinthians 5:17 likewise is not saying born again, but that in Christ, we are a new creature
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It is the same thing.
When a person obeys the Word of God, they have all their sins washed away and they are born again as one born the first time with no sin.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!
Titus 3:5... He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
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All you are doing is denying what is plainly said.
Just believe what is written.
In addition, let's reason together---if you have ALL YOUR SINS TAKEN AWAY, you are as a new born baby again, you are born again.
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You have a cute story.
In John 3, Jesus is teaching something specifically about Israel. It is beyond your ability to understand.
According to your story, God did not need to spend 1500 years with Israel.
According to your story, God did not make any special promises to Israel.
Your story is wrong.
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hehehe
I understand exactly what you claim, it's just that it isn't what I believe what the Bible says.
No way, how can you say that?
God promised Abraham that the Savior would be his blood relative.
All Israelites are blood related to Abraham; and, once Jesus came, then all that matters is all who are blood related to Jesus, meaning all those who come to his shed blood on the cross.
God did make special promises to Israel. All the promises are fulfilled.
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Perhaps you should accept what the Bible says and quit trying to change it.
My point is that this does not require 1500 years of detailed history with the nation of Israel to accomplish. Why so long?
Also note that many, many gentiles are also blood related to Abraham.
WRONG.
Your knowledge is extremely lacking in those promises and their fulfillment.
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I am very careful not to do that.
God sent Jesus when the time was right.
Mark 1:15 "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!"
Galatians 4:4
But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
Ephesians 1:10
as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ.
1 Timothy 2:6
who gave Himself as a ransom for all--the testimony that was given at just the right time.
It was the right time according to God.
No, the blood related to Abraham are not called 'Gentiles'. Besides, the focus is on God promised a BLOOD relative of Abraham's, and, that is to whom the promise is given.
I gave scripture about all the land promises being fulfilled. I have shown that Jesus is the promise fulfilled.
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Not careful enough.
This is IRRELEVANT to the point that I was making. This is yet another example of your lack of understanding just about anything.
I never said it wasn't.
The Bible divides between Jews and Gentiles. Most of Abraham's descendants are NOT Jews. Jews are descendants of ONE of Abraham's GRANDSONS.
Even today, Israel does NOT possess ALL of the land that they were promised.
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RD, I am extremely careful. I have a powerful testimony that I don't think I would have if I wasn't going to be extremely careful.
Why do you say it is irrelevant? You asked why so long and I gave scriptures that say it was times fulfilled and that it was the right time.
Abraham's grandson's were Jews.
The descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were chosen because they are blood related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the ancestors of the Jews, and of course, they were related to Abraham.
Deuteronomy 7:8 But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 4:37
Because he loved your ancestors and chose their descendants after them, he brought you out of Egypt by his Presence and his great strength,
Deuteronomy 9:5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Micah 7:20
You will be faithful to Jacob, and show love to Abraham, as you pledged on oath to our ancestors in days long ago.
The promise was to bring the Savior into the world who would come from Abraham's own seed.
The scriptures show each of the promises, the promise of a great nation, the earthly land promises, and the spiritual promises. The spiritual promises are the utmost of importance, the inheritance of the kingdom of God.
See Genesis 12:1-7; 13:14-17; 15:5-21; 17:2-8; 18:18; 22:17-18; 24:7; 26:3-4; 18:4, 13, 14; 35:12;46:3, 4; Exodus 6:2-8; 12-25; 13:5; 23:31; 32:15; 35:1.
All of the promises have been fulfilled.
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You are very proud of yourself.
You're too dense to understand the point.
Wrong yet again. ONE of Abraham's grandsons was a Jew (Israelite). The rest were gentiles (non-Jews).
There are MANY, MANY other people (gentiles) that are blood related to Abraham. Why can't you understand even the simplest of things?
Duh
Israel does not even possess all of the promised land today.
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Give the scripture that says that and I will believe it.
All the land promises were given.
I gave you many scriptures that prove it.
The land promises came with conditions.
- Deut 6:10,15,18-19 Then it shall come about when the LORD your God brings you into the land which He swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you, great and splendid cities which you did not build...You shall not follow other gods, He will wipe you off the face of the earth... do what is right that you may go in and possess the good land which the LORD swore to {give} your fathers...by driving out all your enemies from before you, as the LORD has spoken.
- Deut 8:19-20 And it shall come about if you ever forget the LORD your God, and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you today that you shall surely perish. Like the nations that the LORD makes to perish before you, so you shall perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the LORD your God.
- Josh 23:15 And it shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you.
- Josh 23:12-16 For if you ever go back and cling to the rest of these nations, these which remain among you, and intermarry with them, so that you associate with them and they with you, know with certainty that the LORD your God will not continue to drive these nations out from before you; but they shall be a snare and a trap to you, and a whip on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. And it shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. When you transgress the covenant of the LORD your God, which He commanded you, and go and serve other gods, and bow down to them, then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and you shall perish quickly from off the good land which He has given you.
- Jer 18:1-10 ...the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make... Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does? declares the LORD. Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel...Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it.
- Jer 19:10-11 Then you are to break the jar in the sight of the men who accompany you and say to them, `Thus says the LORD of hosts, Just so shall I break this people and this city, even as one breaks a potter's vessel, which cannot again be repaired...
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You don't have a Bible? You don't know how the Bible defines a Jew and a gentile?
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I don't see it so show it to me. It can't be kinda like it. The scriptures have to say what you claim.
Galatians 4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
Galatians 4:24
These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar.
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Notice that I was explaining how it only mattered if one was related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob until Jesus came, and those are the Jews, if they obeyed the law---but you tried to throw the point off that truth by saying something about Gentiles being blood related to Abraham.
I gave you scriptures that say it was a promise to those BLOOD related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Then I gave you scripture that says it is NO MORE of blood relatives to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because now it is only to those who come to JESUS' blood shed on the cross.
That was an avoidance derailment tactic if I ever saw one.
Notice that I was explaining how it only mattered if one was related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob until Jesus came, and those are the Jews, if they obeyed the law---but you tried to throw the point off that truth by saying something about Gentiles being blood related to Abraham.
I gave you scriptures that say it was a promise to those BLOOD related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Then I gave you scripture that says it is NO MORE of blood relatives to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because now it is only to those who come to JESUS' blood shed on the cross.
That was an avoidance derailment tactic if I ever saw one.
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People here are saying only Israel can be born again.
Jesus says EVERYONE who wants to be saved must be born again.
It isn't JUST TO ISRAEL.
In John we are told it is NOT of human descent.
John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
That is about it is no longer about a person being called a child of God because they were blood related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; and, because they obeyed the law. Now only being related to God by going through Jesus' blood is what God cares about.
Not a husband's decision is about not of a Jewish husband marrying a non Jew and by the husband's will could have his wife follow the Jewish law and become a Jew..
A person could also become a child of God by their choice...by converting to Judaism.
God says it is no longer by those ways.
Now a person is chosen by God for the person going through the blood of Jesus Christ; for having faith and obedience in Jesus Christ.
Jesus says EVERYONE who wants to be saved must be born again.
It isn't JUST TO ISRAEL.
In John we are told it is NOT of human descent.
John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
That is about it is no longer about a person being called a child of God because they were blood related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; and, because they obeyed the law. Now only being related to God by going through Jesus' blood is what God cares about.
Not a husband's decision is about not of a Jewish husband marrying a non Jew and by the husband's will could have his wife follow the Jewish law and become a Jew..
A person could also become a child of God by their choice...by converting to Judaism.
God says it is no longer by those ways.
Now a person is chosen by God for the person going through the blood of Jesus Christ; for having faith and obedience in Jesus Christ.
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Abraham is the father of MANY nations. Only ONE of those nations are the Jews.
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The Israelites were chosen because they were blood related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Those blood related to Abraham, through Isaac, and Jacob. THOSE are the people God promised concerning THEIR DESCENDANTS.
They had to be in a covenant with God.
Deuteronomy 7:8But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 4:37
Because he loved your ancestors and chose their descendants after them, he brought you out of Egypt by his Presence and his great strength,
Deuteronomy 9:5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Micah 7:20You will be faithful to Jacob, and show love to Abraham, as you pledged on oath to our ancestors in days long ago. The ANCESTORS of the Israelites are ABRAHAM, ISAAC, and JACOB.