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  1. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    I flatly disagree. In fact, I KNOW that you are just simply wrong on this point. Paul was not the apostle to the Kingdom Jews and had agreed to let the Twelve minister to them and he most certainly was not teaching anyone how to be saved under ANY law. Good grief would Paul flip over in his...
  2. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    No need to be snide. Remember the challenge was for you to show me where Paul was telling an unbeliever how to be saved where he explicitly tells the person that its a free gift. It was a rhetorical challenge anyway because I know that no such passage exists. That, by itself, doesn't prove my...
  3. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    The book is there for all to read, glorydaz! The context isn't ambiguous or even debatable. Paul was NOT writing to unbelievers - period. It isn't a matter of opinion. It's perfectly clear who the book of Romans was written to. It was written to... Romans 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of...
  4. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    None of that has anything to do with the gospel of grace except that Jesus both lived and died under the law. We are not saved because we follow the golden rule or the Ten Commandments or any other rule or set of rules. Oh yes it is! (This is literally why it is difficult to not think that...
  5. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    Okay, then make the argument. It would be better if you made it over on that thread, but since we're this far into it here, I suppose it doesn't matter. Stupidity. Literal stupidity. The Pope is certainly NOT saved. No saved person could ever put on one of those ropes, much less allow himself...
  6. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    Romans 3 is very clearly written to believers. He is not presenting that material to unbelievers. He's making the case that, as believers in Christ, we do not need the law because we aren't saved by what we do but by what we believe. Now, I'm not saying that it isn't great information for...
  7. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    Paul was teaching that stuff to believers, not potential converts. Thus, your argument, once again, establishes the truth that grace is a gift but not that knowing that truth is needed to become saved.
  8. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    Oh man! I was really thinking we had come to an agreement. I don't know where else to go. Let me tell you from experience. Loaned books are given away books. They seem to never come back.
  9. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    We are now at a point where I don't even know what your question is. The basic difference between Mid-Acts Dispensationalism and regular dispensationalism is that we see that the previous dispensation was still in effect at Acts 2 (when most other dispensationalists claim the dispensation of...
  10. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    So if they're babes they're saved, right? If so, then where do we disagree? That's just so awesome. I've given that book away a few times. It only ever gets read about half the time so you've made my day!
  11. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    I'm not ignoring the rest of your post, this bit just seems to get to the nib of it though, so... Serving God in our own power IS indulging our flesh! As for the rest of what you've said, you do a terrific job of establishing the fact that our salvation is a gift and that no works are required...
  12. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    What you are asking for cannot be answered in a post. It is at least a book length kind of question to answer. Read The Plot and you'll have a pretty firm handle on what we believe and why we believe it. Until then, understand that, at best, you are talking out your rear end about things you...
  13. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    Now that I can get behind! "The Plot" is the very epitome of sound reason applied to God's word!
  14. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    No, I don't take ANYTHING as authoritative, especially in the catholic sense of the word, aside from God Himself, His written word and sound reason. Is it good information? Yes, I suspect that it is. Is it authoritative? Not a chance. You should understand that it is something of a minor...
  15. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    I agree totally, I'm just not convinced that an understanding of this incredibly important truth is required to get one saved in the first place. It seems it is more an issue of how to live the Christian life once your saved rather than actually getting saved. I'm still open to the idea that I'm...
  16. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    That all those six points are, Idolater! It's nothing at all but a fleshing out of Romans 10:9-10. Any disagreement with a syllable of it is to either misunderstand or outright reject Romans 10:9-10. Stupidity. You declare it both superfluous and necessary. Please try to follow your own logic...
  17. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    Stop talking about things you know nothing about. The single most effective, most evangelical, most stridently anti-sin / pure living, most people loving and most intellectually rational congregation of believers I've ever encountered happens to MAD! You are really off to a bad start here with...
  18. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    I wish everyone understood that it is not necessary to respond to every point. All that is needed is for the response to be substantive, which yours is. I don't disagree with anything you've said here necessarily. It just seems to me that my having intentionally left out any mention of good...
  19. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    Okay fine. I'm all ears... This is not an auspicious start.
  20. Clete

    Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?

    Indeed! There are many wolfs in sheep's clothing. Some better disguised than others. I agree completely. I'd say that such a list is best shared among believers as a way of sharpening one's understanding of the gospel. Since its so narrowly focused, it doesn't feel like I great way to introduce...
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