Derf
Well-known member
Ok. It is interesting. Certainly we all struggle at times with metaphors. What else is your point?
The Joys of Catholicism
- Thread starter Idolater
- Start date
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Which is an admission that Christianity does not hinge on Rome's asinine, un-Biblical, false proposition, that each one of millions of wafers of bread around the world stops being the wafer of bread that it is, and starts being Jesus Christ instead of being the wafer of bread that it is. Keith Green wrote against that Romish falsehood:
The Catholic Chronicles Series : Kety Green : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
The late VChrit stian Singer, Keith Green wrote a series of 4 articles about the Roman Catholic Church. Ed has edited these and placed the together in one...archive.org
The thing I like about podcasts are when the podcaster both writes and acts. Once the podcaster is doing someone else's lines, it's like network news, which is still OK, it's just a different animal. (It's ... more corporate? Not in a terrible way, it doesn't have to be terrible anyway.) It's definitively different with podcasters, you're dealing with the writer and the actor (same person), not just the actor. You can tell.
The thing is the podcaster is an artist working on a masterpiece, while the actor is working on the most popular projects, attracting the eyes of the masses, rather than only the eyes of those who share his passion for whatever niche interest the podcaster has, like mixed martial arts for example. Not everybody's into mixed martial arts, but some podcasters are, and you'll never have network news spending a ton of time on mixed martial arts, because people start changing the channel who aren't mixed martial arts enthusiasts.
But the artist and creator, of the podcast, cares about mixed martial arts. And it's part of his fine art, in creating his personal masterpiece, to discuss mixed martial arts. If you don't like mixed martial arts, you're probably not into Joe Rogan. Or if you're not into swearing.
You give up something with podcasts compared to network news. They're more insular, unless like Rogan, you can bring the World to your studio. Literally World leaders.
Anyway Elvis never wrote a single song. He was all actor, and no creator. Even though songs were written for him, he was no different than Keith Green covering the "Easter Song". That wasn't his song, but he did cover it like a champ, like how Elvis always played music like a champ too, these guys were both really talented, and both died too young.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Jesus spends the bread of life discourse saying how people need to eat His flesh and drink His blood.
At the Last Supper He says, "This is My body" and "This is My blood".
Derf
Well-known member
And it is metaphor that we are struggling with?
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Right. So He's metaphorically talking about the metaphor of the Eucharist in the bread of life discourse in John 6.
There were people in John 6 who were struggling with metaphor too, and they all left.
Peter then says that he too plus all the Disciples were struggling with metaphor as well, and they too would leave, except they didn't have anywhere else to go.
This may have been when the Father in Heaven had revealed to the Son, that He had chosen Peter to lead His Apostles, at this moment.
You can almost imagine Christ thinking in this moment, when the Father in Heaven revealed He has chosen Peter, "Oh great."
7djengo7
This space intentionally left blank
Is your pointing out the fact that the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible supposed to be thought of as somehow analogous to my pointing out the fact that the phrase "Catholic Church" is not in the Bible?
Why would you call something Jesus founded, "Roman Catholicism"?
Why would you want to call an -ism "the Church"?
Is affirming that a wafer of bread stops being a wafer of bread and starts being Jesus Christ a branch of denying that a wafer of bread stops being a wafer of bread and starts being Jesus Christ?
Is denying that a wafer of bread stops being a wafer of bread and starts being Jesus Christ a branch of affirming that a wafer of bread stops being a wafer of bread and starts being Jesus Christ?
Is believing that Rome's pope has divine authority a branch of not believing that Rome's pope has divine authority?
Is not believing that Rome's pope has divine authority a branch of believing that Rome's pope has divine authority?
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
ofc.
I wouldn't. He just called it the Church. It's you all other branches of Christian tradition which have made it necessary just to make sure we're not being ambiguous. We can't just say we're the Church simpliciter, because "Church" can and does mean so many different things to so many different people.
I wouldn't, I'd just assume keep isms out of it entirely. Christ said He will build His Church, not an ism.
No.
Yes. Now you're getting it. How? Because you all claim to follow and believe in Jesus. Even JWs. You're all branches of Christian tradition, but there is (not just was) an O.G. Church.
Before I answer, what divine authority?
So, why did you reference Acts 20:7 if it wasn't as support for a specialness of the 1st day of the week?
7djengo7
This space intentionally left blank
I'm not seeing any analogy between the two things. Could you explain why you say they are analogous?
But you do call something "Roman Catholicism":
You wouldn't? Yet you do.
But you do call something "Roman Catholicism". Are you not calling an -ism "Roman Catholicism"?
So, you are not calling an -ism "Roman Catholicism"? Or, instead, do you mean that you are calling an -ism "Roman Catholicism", but that you would just as soon not be doing so?
Did Christ say He will build whatever it is you are calling "Roman Catholicism"?
On the contrary, denying the proposition, P, is in no way a branch of affirming P. Your response to that question is as ridiculous as it would be to say that denying that the sky is blue is a branch of affirming that the sky is blue.
Wow! Since, according to you, "to follow and believe in Jesus" is (is it not?) to believe a wafer of bread stops being a wafer of bread and starts being Jesus, what you've just handed us is this: "Because you all (people who deny that a wafer of bread stops being a wafer of bread and starts being Jesus) claim to [believe a wafer of bread stops being a wafer of bread and starts being Jesus]." Are you serious? People who deny Rome's doctrine of Transubstantiation, claim to believe Rome's doctrine of Transubstantiation?
It's certainly not Christian to call unitarian heretics such as JWs, "Christians", or to call their Russellite heresy, "Christian" or "Christianity". Doing things of that sort is a feature of Romish false ecumenism.
Um, God's authority. Beside God's authority, what else would you even think to call "divine authority"?
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
So you are Seventh Day Adventist or no? You didn't answer the question.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
They are both terms not found in Scripture but which are true anyway.
The Church Jesus and His Apostles founded.
I gave my reasons why. It's for clarification, identification, definition purposes.
I am. But I wouldn't call it an ism if I had my druthers, but I don't, because there is confusion now that didn't exist previously.
The latter.
Yes, but He didn't use that term. He used "Church".
OK taking your analogy. Say there was a time before anybody ever said or thought or believed that the sky is blue. Fair. Now one day someone founds the school of thought which affirms that the sky is blue. Never seen before that day, never thought, never said. Brand new.
Now later on, there exists a group which began as that school of thought, and before, there was never anybody who said otherwise, there were those who said and thought nothing about whether the sky is blue, and then, there emerged a group of people who said, contra the O.G. group which lived by and believed and taught and said the sky is blue, that the sky is NOT blue.
Without that first group or movement or school of thought, this second group, who denied the sky is blue, wouldn't have any reason to exist at all, since they live to contradict the first group. So the second group exists contingently. Without the first group, the second group doesn't exist, since it would have no reason to exist. They exist in opposition to the first group.
In this way even those who actively live to deny the sky is blue, they are a branch of the first group, because the first group was founded in order to say that the sky is blue. Before them, nobody said anything at all about the color of the sky. So the second group, the blue-sky-deniers, contingently exist, contingent upon the existence of the first group or school of thought.
Even if the school which says the sky is blue entirely died out, such that literally nobody ever said the sky is blue anymore, even still, history testifies that the second group of blue-sky-deniers developed out of the group which originally said the sky is blue.
Note that "transubstantiation" is a particular theology of the Eucharist which does not obtain and is not taught or believed by all ancient branches of the Church which Jesus and His Apostles founded. But the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is believed and taught by them all.
No. But before anybody ever said the sky's NOT blue, someone said that it IS blue. The branch of Christian tradition which denies the Real Presence would not exist without the O.G. Church, who does and did believe in the Real Presence.
I didn't call them Christians. I called them a branch of Christian tradition.
We don't believe Arians are Christians, just like how the Apostles did not believe the Judaizers in the first century were Christians either, they believed in and promoted a false Gospel.
Then elaborate. Authority can mean different things. It can mean authoritative, like canonical, and it can also mean a power, ability, right, etc. I took you to be saying the pope wields divine power, and I was asking you, which power? So if you meant something like authoritative or canonical, then let me know.
Sorry, I could swear that I did. The answer is no.
Right Divider
Body part
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
When was that?
Right Divider
Body part
A long time ago.
I'm going to midnight mass for 2 reasons. The secondary is I pay tuition. You need your head examined if you put them in public schools. The more important reason is this.
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.