Selaphiel

Yeah, we have a test like that too. Have to pass that before you can do the driving test. It's basic stuff but I actually failed it the first time I took it. I remember one of the questions I missed was about the time at which the road is slickest after it has been raining. I'm pretty sure I guessed the longest time period and it was one of the middle ones. :mmph: Hopefully you'll pass on the first time.

Yes I remember you talking about Heschel before but couldn't remember which book it was. I'm looking forward to Bonhoffer but not sure when I'll dive in since I have a couple other things going at the moment.

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Driving theory? Is that like staying between the lines?

I'm doing alright. I've had a pretty relaxing Saturday. Went to a used bookstore and got a few books. Just watched the Netherlands-Brazil game.

I got another short book by Tillich. "Biblical Religion and the Search for Ultimate Reality". "The Cost of Discipleship" by Bonhoffer. And I got a book titled "The Two Cities of God: The Church's Responsibility for the Earthly City". It is a collection of essays by various authors. No one that I have heard of. I thought it might be interesting with all the threads going on about what laws should be on the books and how Christians should view it.

I was tempted to buy several more but I kept self-control. I almost bought a book by Hengel on the atonement. Heschel's "Man Is Not Alone". And one of several by Moltmann that they had.

:e4e:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV_3qx-oBms

Now H&G are running around the house doing their 'wimpy alpaca' version of it. :Plain:

How are you doing?

:e4e:

:wave2: Going back to your thoughts on prophecy....

How do you think that approach affects or relates to prophecies that are said to have been fulfilled by Jesus? Or, reading it that way, can you say that Jesus fulfilled those prophecies in any real and direct way? Or only in a metaphorical way, where Jesus is a type for Israel? I have a book about some of this and I thought about quoting from it but I figured I'd hit the character limit for these messages.

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This means that I would for example reject literal reading of violent commands, because I think they are wholly inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

I've recently heard a fairly well-known theologian claim that Christ's non-violence trumps much of the OT. Is that your view as well? If so, can you explain to me the historical moorings of such a view, and how it deals with traditional doctrines like just-war theory? Thanks. :e4e:

Cool. :thumb:

I assume he isn't allowed back for a second lesson? lain:

:rotfl: good luck. Maybe you ought to wear a helmet too. And hopefully the car has a roll cage. :noid:

Glad you had a good time. That sounds very nice. A fjord would be a nice setting.

I do agree with what you say about the NT pointing toward a focus on a non-literal reading of the OT.

Going back to part 1 quickly to sort of repeat but maybe clarify a bit too.....I get the impression (perhaps a false one) that sometimes what the author actually intended gets left behind and I'm not sure that's a good thing to do and that's my concern. Particularly as it concerns prophecies.

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Part 2....

Yes, I'm about recovered now. Just a burnt 2nd story of the house from the fireworks they set off. And painted my car like the USA flag. lain:

How's your weekend?

:e4e:

Going back to the Paul stuff....I agree with you on what they meant by Paul failing a course on the OT. Certainly someone with Paul's background would have had knowledge of the Old Testament. On meanings of scripture, I'm not opposed to searching for or giving a spiritual meaning in passages, it can be very helpful, but what sorts of rules are in play for guiding the enterprise? I'm reminded of the Hart video(David Bentley Hart on the Intersections of Scripture and Theology ) you sent me a while back where he talks about allegorical approaches to scripture and how they can be seen as true even though it isn't what the author would have intended.

One thing that I respect and like about MAD is that they seem to take seriously the prophecies about Israel. Perhaps it isn't fair to say that spiritualizing things is not taking it seriously, but what does one do with the historical and cultural aspects of the Old Testament scriptures and prophecies?

to be continued....

I'm beginning Hart's book and he says this in the first chapter: For Thomas Aquinas, for instance, God creates the order of nature by infusing the things of the universe with the wonderful power of moving themselves toward determinate ends.

He then gives an analogy of a shipwright that that endows timbers with the ability to self-construct. Is Aquinas saying that God is giving things those determinate ends which they act toward? If not, where do those ends come from? And how would that play in to evolution?

Sorry about the change in subject. :noid: I'll get back to the other stuff later.

:e4e:

The description is Sunnmøre Alps in Hjørundfjorden, Norway. It's a beautiful picture of the mountains up above some clouds.

I briefly saw the post earlier this morning but haven't had a chance to read it closely or respond.

Things aren't bad. Trying to understand all of Tillich in a couple days. I read a bit more about him from his Wiki page today. I may read Hart's book next. Tillich's wiki page gave some of his criticism of traditional theism but it seemed to be based on a conception of God as one being among others. I thought Hart's book might be helpful because I'm not sure that's how he would characterize it.

How's your week going? Have you and Frank started the driving yet?

The image of a James Herriot with a clerical collar just came to mind.

Here, getting your license at 16 is like a rite of passage. The county is so big and people commute such distances that it's hard to imagine life without a car.

Bing's picture of the day is of Norway. I want to go there. :chuckle:

Driving, hmm? Too bad I can't take you for a spin on the freeways of SoCal. I could turn your hair white in an hour.

I made a couple posts in the group about Tillich's Dynamics of Faith in case you are interested. I'm curious about your thoughts.

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I watched the first two to get caught up with the on you mentioned. Their talk about Paul is interesting. In addition to failing a class, he's an ad-hoc theologian. His theology evolved and wasn't a unified system, it was a collection of metaphors and such. I've often thought that the NT writers, not just Paul, either misused or used in strange ways the OT scriptures. Whether it's Paul in the passages mentioned in the video or the fulfillment of scriptures by Jesus in Matthew (though I've come around a bit on that one). I've also sort of reached a point where I'm not concerned about having a systematic theology that makes sense of everything. But I'm a bit unsure of what you're asking. Orthodoxy would say that Paul was inspired and what he's doing with scripture is fine. Can you clarify your question or maybe give some of your thoughts about it?

Having a decent weekend so far. Watched the soccer games today. No plans beyond that. What about you?

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I know, the metric system part was crazy, wasn't it? It's so bizarre that I wonder if she really, truly believes it or if she just writes that stuff while laughing to herself at the people out there who would actually agree with her. :chuckle:

I'm doing all right, hope you are too.

Blessings in the Mighty OM