Selaphiel

I'm so glad. How unfortunate the maker of the OP didn't share your enjoyment.

I never got very far with Nietzsche, only having read Thus Spake Zarathustra. It was quite an assault on my sense of mental order. :chuckle: I have to say though, that every so often I'd manage to untangle something from it that resonated, so that even when I'd be disagreeing, I'd have to say "but that... that's genius there..." But that's Nietzsche on such a basic scale. You'll have to tell me what direction the essay takes you.

Let me know what you think of the book, too? I looked it up on Amazon and thought you'd enjoy this review:

...which I'll send in a second message. The forum software says with it added, the VM is too long. :chuckle:

Hi there Sela. The pleasure was all mine.

I know... and I had a little fun :angel: but truth be told I can only take so much of that before I'm bored to tears and I just wander off... :chuckle:

I've just read one of your posts from this morning and am going to go back and rep that too, I liked it very much.

I hope things are well with you.

A bit about consciousness in Hart's book....I definitely found it interesting. On some level I can understand the idea that different perceptions can be compared and you can begin to come up with groups and categories and it becomes a cycle and keeps growing. But I think Hart makes a pretty persuasive argument that all thinking presupposes existing abstract ideas and categories that perceptions fall into. And that trying to get to the consciousness that we have through incremental steps is probably guilty of the pleonastic fallacy (never heard that term until this book). One thing I am curious about is where in the spectrum of life Hart thinks this qualitatively different experience of consciousness starts. Hart appears to accept the theory of evolution so I wonder how exactly he sees our consciousness fitting into the evolutionary history.

:e4e:

Nice. What are the books?

That should be interesting. I took a course on Nietzsche in college and I enjoyed it. He was certainly a fascinating character. I still have the books I used in that course and some day I'd like to read through more of them.

My weekend has been alright. It was a long one because today is Labor Day. I've tried to catch up on some sleep. Watched some tennis (US Open). Got some reading done. Going back to work tomorrow will not be fun. Especially because I'll be in an all-day meeting.

No problem. Yeah I plan to stick around and participate more.

Have a good one

Yeah, it's been a while already. It wasn't some personal tragedy or bad experience that happened to myself which lead to my disbelief. I just didn't believe anymore and got cognitive dissonance by holding on to the faith and in trying to justify it to myself and to others, so I let go. I know this is very brief but hopefully it satisfies your inquiry.

:e4e:

:chuckle: No, that's still quite warm.

:shocked: Yes, that was a very unpleasant meal. :noid:

Is the start of school going ok? Any plans for the weekend?

:e4e:

I can't say I'm fascinated by it. :chuckle: Would be very hard to get past the ick factor. :noid: But from a sustainability viewpoint I think it may be something we should consider. The author did make one point that I thought was good. He compared eating insects to eating shrimp. He said that the two experiences should be very similar but for some reason eating insects causes a much stronger negative reaction. Do you recall what type of insect your friend ate?

Will make another post on Hart.

:e4e:

:shocked: 6 hours? Wow. We never had anything like that for getting a driver's license. Although, the requirements are tougher now than when I got mine. I think it's a several month process now and you have to log a certain amount of hours on the road. And in different weather conditions. When I did it the rules were much easier. :chuckle:

Tea sounds good. :cheers: I haven't had any tea adventures lately. I bought a large amount of a white tea variety last time so I still have a decent amount of that. And just a small amount of the a pu erh variety. I don't drink as much tea in the summer months. But once fall comes and turns into winter I imagine I will drink more and will buy some new kinds.

One of these days I'll finally learn from my mistakes. lain:

How'd the driving course go?

I've been alright. Finished the consciousness chapter in Hart's book. Now on to Bliss. Haven't started it though. Taking a break to read some in my latest science magazine. There is an article about moving to a diet that incorporates more bugs in order to be more sustainable. It's also an issue all about the latest advances in evolution. Should be interesting.

:e4e:

:chuckle:

I have been making some slow but steady progress in the book. I'm in the chapter on consciousness now. It's been interesting. I was struck by the section on Kant and the transcendental conditions of experience and the point that without consciousness then we wouldn't be able to perceive distinct events at all. It would just be a constant storm of perception.

Having a good weekend?

I volunteered for a home-building organization today. H&G thought that the home needed to have an indoor pool so they sealed off a room and then put a hose through the window and kept it running for a couple hours. Probably won't be volunteering for them again. lain:

:e4e:

Just heard a story about a guy in Oslo who was arrested for driving a segway while drunk. Now H&G have the idea to start a modern version of the Joust with drunken segway riders instead of horses. lain:

I would agree about our character changing. I was just trying to use a dumb example to make a point about God not changing simply because his experiences change. I think those thoughts on process theology make some sense to me.

Yes that is interesting. I'd be interested to hear some about what they go over on those topics. Would you say that any of the prophetic writings in the OT are criticism of some of the other literature in the OT?

:e4e:

Thank you so much, I appreciate your saying that more than you could ever know.

And the same in return to you, but that's like saying that water is wet...

Your comment about Islam reminded me of an article I read this past weekend. It was about a liberal group within Islam in the US. They are accepting of homosexuality, interfaith marriages and prayer, and having female leaders. I suppose it shouldn't be surprising because there are a variety of viewpoints within any religion or ideology, but I was. It will be interesting to see if they grow.

:e4e:

Nice. Sounds like a broad and interesting course. Good luck with the first lecture. :thumb:

I think I'd agree with you on saying the past constitutes the present and potentials for future, but I was referring to being in the past as if it were the present. And I also think it could make sense to say that God's nature doesn't change but his experiences do. To take a silly example, would you say that you change based on if you are browsing TOL or playing a video game? Perhaps if your mood changes? :idunno:

Yes, they said they will have to remove the turbo in order to pass inspection. Along with the medieval type cannon that they installed in the trunk. lain:

Cool. :up: Do you know what any texts will be for that modern criticism class will be?

I'm doing alright. Have the day off work tomorrow to get my car inspected. I hope nothing major is wrong.

That problem isn't really what I had in mind, but that can be a concern too. If you look at scripture it does appear to show that God is changed as well. What I was thinking of is what I see as a logical problem of how God can be present in the past, present, and future. The future doesn't exist. The past is gone. We experience a single directed passage of time. If God has any relation to us then how would he not relate to us in that same way? I realize that much of this, both on the physics side and the theology/philosophy side is over my head.

Cool. Good luck with the final driving courses. Soon you and the alpacas can go cruising about town. :chuckle: What will you be doing this semester once school starts?

Thanks for the elaboration on the other stuff.

:e4e:

:wazzup: Sorry for the delay. Haven't been around TOL as much as I'd like recently. I always get the 'good morning' thread though.

I'm not sure what my view on God and time is. There was actually a time when I would have considered myself an open theist. It makes sense to me in some ways. I don't think I'd agree with Hart in saying that God being two places at once is like God being two times at once. Time and location aren't very comparable to me. I'm tempted to compare experiencing time to logic, in some way. As in, can't be violated or transcended. But I also realize there are problems with saying God experiences time. Hart gave an interesting definition of time. He says time is the passage from potential to actual. And God, being only actuality, would be timeless. And I suppose that could be well and good, but when you start talking about God relating to a contingent universe then I think it becomes problematic.

You are right that he draws on Thomism. I'm re-reading some of the sections starting on page 104. It's starting to make a bit more sense. The idea of God creating and imparting some sort of 'existential enertia', as Hart calls it, still makes a bit of sense to me too though.