Let's try something new: Do we agree on anything?

[Ps82]

Ever read Acts 1-7?

It was working, at least initially.



This is literally the plot of the Bible.

Israel was always meant to be a spokes-nation to the world. God had spokesmen (prophets), and tried to scale up. Acts shows that it didn't work.

So God went to plan B, a mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world, using one person to go to all nations.



New way?

Try "mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world."



This is the plot twist of the Bible.



"You must be circumcised" and "you don't have to circumcise" are the same message?



Nowhere in the gospels is Christ's death burial and resurrection openly preached. And prior to Paul's conversion, Christ's crucifixion is preached as a condemnation against the Jews, nh ot as the core tenet of salvation. (cf, Acts 1-7).

But that's the core claim of Paul's message and subsequently Christianity as a whole, that Christ was raised to bring life to the dead, not to the remission of sins (which is something only found in the Gospels, Acts 2, in Acts 10:43 in the context of Peter and Cornelius, and the epistle to the Hebrews).

My thoughts:
New WAY?
I believe Genesis 2 reveals that The Christ was always to be The Way! The promised / The prophesied ONE. There was no NEW WAY ... just a fulfillment of --- The promised WAY. Christ said: I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.

I think: Circumcision was an OT symbolic ritual pointing to the fact regarding the work of the Christ. God, the Christ, would come as a male human being but also as an Emmanuel. He would be the one to give a second birth to humanity. His outer mortal humanity would be stripped from him and placed on a heavenly altar and he would be given a new body which would produce children unto God. HIS new body would have power to walk through walls, appear and disappear, exist within creation as well as in heavenly places, give mortality to those conceived by him with his spirit in us.

The Christ, Emmanuel, came and fulfilled his mission which had been represented by the act of circumcision. There was no more need for the symbolic act for he had come and fulfilled it as the God/Christ. No need for Gentiles to perform the ritual ... which had been a sign given to Abraham.

Yet, I think humanity much have found value in the medical procedure and have kept using it for health reasons ... Right? I've never studied that aspect.

 

[Ps82]

Thank you for the low hanging fruit.

7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel of the circumcised was to Peter

You can even look up the Greek. It is the gospel OF the uncircumcised. It shows possessions, not direction. It is our gospel.

GAL 2:7 Paul had been sent by the Lord to the Gentiles and to the poor. He had received from God the good news that circumcision was no longer needed to be spread to the Gentiles. Why?
My Thoughts: The symbolism of the ritual had been fulfilled by Christ for the OT followers including the Jews and children of Abraham.

The Gentiles did not need to know the symbolic fore-shadow prophesy of the promised future Christ. The Christ had come. They would have a new promise. Christ IN US ... and we are to be born again!

 

[Ps82]

We don't know how the original plan might have worked. My thought is that the original plan involved much larger numbers of Jews believing and being sent out, but because Paul and company were persecuting instead of joining the movement, God determined a new way (one He had considered before, but wasn't needed until the Jews rejected their messiah and His offer of forgiveness, as Peter offered) of taking the message to the Gentiles, but not a new message. Remember that the message was verbalized somewhat by the angels at Christ's birth.
Luke 2:14 KJV — Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

That is close to saying nothing can exist outside of God. Those who would choose to live outside of God will suffer the second death.

Chrysostom:
Perhaps I understand how you came to your idea ... but I think there is NO literal 'outside of God's essence/substance/spirit'. He is omni-present. I believe there can only be a sort of outside of him in this fashion:

1.) Lost souls can be out of his presence.
2.) Outside of a domain/kingdom established where the saints will live with our risen Lord and The LORD Father.
3.) The presence of God named The LORD will dwell with men in a relationship. We will see HIM and live with HIM and His risen Son in a relationship. There will be the lost who are separated from him without this relationship. his kingdom.

I also believe that God can give of his essence-in measures. (IOW in lesser portions)
Examples of my thinking:
1.) God IS LIFE ... humanity was given a measure of that life and even that was shorted when mortality was established due to the sin of Adam and Woman.
2.) In an opposite manner all things were made available to the Christ. All things of the Spirit were given to HIM from the Father LORD God without measure ... even the right to judge and to forgive sins. John 17:5...
3.) Mankind will never be equal with the infinite God as was Jesus ... even Christ wished that we could be one with the Father as was HE ...
4.) Even The Lake of Fire will be within God's Spiritual essence as A PLACE designed for the angels. The rebellious angels will be separated from HIS presence. Doesn't scripture say that we saints will judge the angels???? Right. I Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?... I assume we will determine if any angels can be forgiven and not go to THAT PLACE within God. Oh well, a different topic.
5.) There is no place of NOTHING inside of God and NO PLACE OUTSIDE OF GOD.

 

[Derf]

Chrysostom:
Perhaps I understand how you came to your idea ... but I think there is NO literal 'outside of God's essence/substance/spirit'. He is omni-present. I believe there can only be a sort of outside of him in this fashion:

1.) Lost souls can be out of his presence.
2.) Outside of a domain/kingdom established where the saints will live with our risen Lord and The LORD Father.
3.) The presence of God named The LORD will dwell with men in a relationship. We will see HIM and live with HIM and His risen Son in a relationship. There will be the lost who are separated from him without this relationship. his kingdom.

I also believe that God can give of his essence-in measures. (IOW in lesser portions)
Examples of my thinking:
1.) God IS LIFE ... humanity was given a measure of that life and even that was shorted when mortality was established due to the sin of Adam and Woman.
2.) In an opposite manner all things were made available to the Christ. All things of the Spirit were given to HIM from the Father LORD God without measure ... even the right to judge and to forgive sins. John 17:5...
3.) Mankind will never be equal with the infinite God as was Jesus ... even Christ wished that we could be one with the Father as was HE ...
4.) Even The Lake of Fire will be within God's Spiritual essence as A PLACE designed for the angels. The rebellious angels will be separated from HIS presence. Doesn't scripture say that we saints will judge the angels???? Right. I Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?... I assume we will determine if any angels can be forgiven and not go to THAT PLACE within God. Oh well, a different topic.
5.) There is no place of NOTHING inside of God and NO PLACE OUTSIDE OF GOD.

You may be over thinking it. If God is everywhere, which doesn't really have direct scriptural support, then He wouldn't need to go down to observe or act, concepts that are written in scripture, like related to Sodom's destruction and the confusion of languages at Babel. The whole point of omnipresence where it is suggested in scripture seems to speak of God's presence for the believer in time of trouble, not just an overarching existence.

 

[Ps82]

You may be over thinking it. If God is everywhere, which doesn't really have direct scriptural support, then He wouldn't need to go down to observe or act, concepts that are written in scripture, like related to Sodom's destruction and the confusion of languages at Babel. The whole point of omnipresence where it is suggested in scripture seems to speak of God's presence for the believer in time of trouble, not just an overarching existence.

All good points.
Except ... in the case of Sodom and G. and the tower of Babel. God did already know. But God is mercy (merciful and loving) and love. He often sent a prophets among men to warn the people as with the children of Noah and the children of Abraham and Israel when they were straying. In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah it says the LORD God came himself and went down into the streets that night and preached truth of sin and the need of repentance to the people; yet, he found not even 10 willing to repent. IOW, God came as Emmanuel among men honored his gift of free will to mankind and offered a second chance to change.

Yes, I believe God the Spirit is everywhere ... but it is his mercy that causes him to come among men or send prophets.

Another example was when God showed Jonah he was everywhere. Jonah did not think of God as an omni-present. He thought of him as a finite LORD God. He thought he could escape God's finite presence ... so, he fled in the opposite direction of Nineveh in order to hide from God. He wasn't able to do so and wound up going to Nineveh anyway as God requested. The same with Adam and woman. They thought they could hide from the the presence of The Word of God who came talking and walking in the Garden, but they could not hide from his presence for God is first a Spirit and sees all for he is in all and all is in Him. Nothing surprised God ... but he is merciful and created away to come unto mankind like a Father to rescue, teach, and offer mercy.

I happen to think this is a mystery of how the Spirit was able to come among men as Emmanuel to show his mercy.

 

[Nick M]

Why?

Why not just go with what the Bible says? He tells us. He tells us the purpose of the law. He tells us Israel is to keep it anyway, including the ceremonial part. We are saved by grace to drive Israel to jealousy. We are saved apart from the law.