John 18:5 what was Jesus saying?

oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Tigger 2 said:
As for the idea that the Greek Septuagint at Exodus 3:14 uses ego eimi ('I am' in English) as God's name, here is what the Brenton Septuagint (Zondervan Publ.) actually says:

"And God spoke to Moses saying, I am (ego eimi) THE BEING (ho ohn - capitalization by translator Brenton)...." (Compare Gabriel's statement at Luke 1:19.)


If I said "I am Tigger2," surely no one would think my name is "I am"!

The Septuagint does not say Moses was told that God's name is "I Am."

And since all other uses of the word ehyeh found in Moses' writings are understood to be "I will be," it is unlikely that he meant "I am" at Ex. 3:14.
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God had many truths about himself that had not been revealed at that time.

God is not a God of powerless words. His works indicate that His words are powerful. "Let there be light". Etc.

God would reveal His superiority over the Egyptian God's by the ten plagues and subsequent works.

Thus God identifying himself and his potential by stating "I will be what I will be" fits beautifully with God's actions to follow.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

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Bright Raven said:
What is He saying if He is not the Almighty?
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The context is the answer. The mob stated that that they were looking for Jesus of Nazareth.

Jesus Christ, already knowing God's will regarding what was before him and being committed to obeying his Father to being about his Father's business was proactive in action and answered them, the mob, "I am he"

He who? Jesus of Nazareth!
 
7djengo7

7djengo7

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oatmeal said:
The context is the answer. The mob stated that that they were looking for Jesus of Nazareth.

Jesus Christ, already knowing God's will regarding what was before him and being committed to obeying his Father to being about his Father's business was proactive in action and answered them, the mob, "I am he"

He who? Jesus of Nazareth!
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Where'd you get "he"? It's not in the text.

If Jesus had wanted to say "I am he", then why did He not say it? Rather, He said "I am".
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
7djengo7 said:
Where's "he" in the Greek? Answer: Nowhere.

So, KJV (for one) gets at least one thing wrong--the same thing you get wrong.
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There also verb forms for the past that allow for 'was, but still am' or simply 'was' without drawing the present fact of Him being there into question. Clearly, 'am' Present Indicative is the best way to understand. If the Lord Jesus Christ was talking in Aramaic, and the Aramaic New Testament leaves no room for translation error.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
7djengo7 said:
Where'd you get "he"? It's not in the text.

If Jesus had wanted to say "I am he", then why did He not say it? Rather, He said "I am".
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Either way, whether "I am he" or "I am" he is stating to his captors that he is Jesus of Nazareth, a conclusion that is obvious from the context.

They were already hell bent on capturing and destroying him, There was no reason for Jesus to provoke them all the more. Why do you think he kept silent through out all the hours he was tortured? He knew how severely he would be tortured from OT records, would you add more misery to yourself? I see no scripture that suggests he was seeking to increase the brutality of the torture he already knew was before him
 
7djengo7

7djengo7

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oatmeal said:
Either way, whether "I am he" or "I am"
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It's "I am". It's not "I am he".

And, since it's "I am", and not "I am he", there's no basis for your having said this:

oatmeal said:
He who?
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oatmeal said:
he is stating to his captors that he is Jesus of Nazareth, a conclusion that is obvious from the context.
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From the fact that Jesus said "I am", rather than "I am he", or "I am Jesus of Nazareth", it's obvious that Jesus was saying "I am he", or "I am Jesus of Nazareth"?

oatmeal said:
They were already hell bent on capturing and destroying him, There was no reason for Jesus to provoke them all the more.
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Provoke them all the more? You're admitting that Jesus' saying "I am" provoked them more than they would have been provoked had He said "I am he", no?

oatmeal said:
I see no scripture that suggests he was seeking to increase the brutality of the torture he already knew was before him
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Which would have "increased the brutality of the torture...before him" more? For Jesus to have said "I am" (as He did say), or for Jesus to have said "I am he" (as He did not say)?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
oatmeal said:
5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

What was Jesus saying?

a. he acknowledging that he is Jesus of Nazareth

b. he was claiming to be the "I am"

c. other _________
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When Jesus said I am he, what happened?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Aimiel said:
That word: "He," came from the translation. The original Greek didn't have that word. Have you been following this thread or just skimming?
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I don't go by others saying all translations are wrong. Who are they to condemn scriptures and rewrite ALL the Bibles? As for you asking if I have been following the thread or just skimming---I don't read every post, especially if it is long and not to me; not even skim them.
Now back to the scriptures where Jesus says I am he---what happened after he said that? Try answering the question. What happened? Stop supporting people who draw distrust to the written Word of God.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
7djengo7 said:
It's "I am". It's not "I am he".

And, since it's "I am", and not "I am he", there's no basis for your having said this:





From the fact that Jesus said "I am", rather than "I am he", or "I am Jesus of Nazareth", it's obvious that Jesus was saying "I am he", or "I am Jesus of Nazareth"?



Provoke them all the more? You're admitting that Jesus' saying "I am" provoked them more than they would have been provoked had He said "I am he", no?



Which would have "increased the brutality of the torture...before him" more? For Jesus to have said "I am" (as He did say), or for Jesus to have said "I am he" (as He did not say)?
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Either way, what he did not say is "I am I am"

Therefore he is not saying "I am I am" he said "I am" which could be translated "I am he" because that is the essence of what he said.


Jesus was clearly identifying himself as Jesus of Nazareth.

If that upsets some people, they should learn to accept truth instead of traditions, falsely labeled as right doctrine.

Truth does tend to upset those who are fooled by error
 
7djengo7

7djengo7

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oatmeal said:
Either way, what he did not say is "I am I am"

Therefore he is not saying "I am I am"
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But, who is claiming that Jesus said, "I am I am"? I'm certainly not claiming that Jesus said, "I am I am".

Also, notice what you did there: You first affirmed that Jesus did not say, "I am I am", and then you affirmed that "therefore" Jesus did not say "I am I am". You're making the same proposition to function both as your premise and as your conclusion, which is of absolutely no use to you, here--especially inasmuch as I already agree that Jesus did not say, "I am I am".

Again, what Jesus did say is "I am"; Jesus did not say "I am he".

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oatmeal said:
he said "I am" which could be translated "I am he" because that is the essence of what he said.
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True: ego eimi is "I am"
False: ego eimi is "I am he"

"I am he" is not a translation of "ego eimi".

From where do you imagine you are getting your "he"?

Which Greek word in John 18:5 would you say could be translated "he"?

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oatmeal said:
Jesus was clearly identifying himself as Jesus of Nazareth.
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  • Jesus did not say, "I am he".
  • Jesus did not say, "I am Jesus".
  • Jesus did not say, "I am Jesus of Nazareth".
  • Jesus did not say, "I am whom ye seek".
  • Jesus did not say, "That's me".
What (if anything) do you imagine you mean by saying that Jesus was "identifying himself as Jesus of Nazareth"?
 
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