He said that He existed before Abraham.
So unless He is an angel or other immortal being, that makes Him God,
the I AM.
Jesus is, and you should be well aware of this, referencing what he said to Moses at the burning bush:
And God said to Moses,
“I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel,
‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” - Exodus 3:14
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV
Exodus 3:14 (WH) καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν καὶ εἶπεν οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς
Exodus 3:14 kai eipen ho theos pros Moysen ego eimi ho on . . . ho on apestalken me pros ymas
Exodus 3:14 And said the God to Moses I Am the One Who Is . . . the One Who Is has sent me to you.
And so, we see Jesus not only claiming to be God, but also claiming to be the one whom the I AM sent.
God sent His son, the Great I AM, to tabernacle (yes, that is the greek word used in John 1:14) among us, because just as God dwelt with Israel in a tent called the Tabernacle, He also put on a 'flesh tent' to walk among mankind.
And while He was on earth, his message was overwhelmingly self-focused, and on top of that, whereas in the Old Testament we see God through His prophets saying "Thus saith the LORD" about 420 times, in the New Testament, that phrase does not appear, NOT ONCE. It is replaced with Jesus' proclamation, "I say to you" 135 times!
You can find the (rather long) list (which is why I'm not copying/pasting it here) of verses that show that Jesus' message was UTTERLY self-centered at
https://kgov.com/deity.
NOT ONE of the prophets or angels could have EVER been said such things and remained righteous. NOT ONE, for it is blasphemy for a created being to ever demand that one follow, believe in, leave family for, live in, come after, abide in, do things for and even die for, confess, do not deny, love, do not reject, be worthy of, come to, receive, tell others about, hear and do the saying of, (and the list keeps going) the created being, rather than God,
The above witnesses establish that Jesus is God:: The verse in Exodus (among others throughout the Bible) where both God and Jesus refer to themselves as "I am"; the fact that just as God tabernacled in a tent with the Israelites, so too He tabernacled among us according to John; that "Thus saith the LORD" is replaced with "I say to you"; that Jesus message was self-focused.
That's FOUR witnesses that Jesus is God. God said minimum two to three witnesses are necessary to establish a matter.
I would like to reply to all your points and conclusions but for lack of space and time, I will at the very least address your first statement from scripture, not tradition.
He said that He existed before Abraham.
Did he say he existed before Abraham?
How is it that he existed before Abraham?
If that was true, other scriptures would be contradicted
Jesus Christ, according to God, as recorded in Matthew 1:18 had a beginning.
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Birth is the Greek word, gennessis or beginning. "now the beginning of Jesus Christ was on this wise....."
In Genesis 3:15, we learn that there would be a seed of the woman that would bruise the head of the serpent
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Who is this woman? It is of course, Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ.
Since the seed is mentioned in verse 15 does that mean that Mary was in existence back then?
Not at all, but what God says is, is, and what God says will be, will be.
Or as Romans 4:17 states
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Was Abraham a father of many nations when God told him that? Not at all, Abe was not even a great grand father, maybe not even a grandfather at this time when God said in
Genesis 17:4-5
As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a
father of many nations.
Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a
father of many nations have I made thee.
God clearly spoke of things that were not as though they were.
Was anything or anyone going to stop God from fullilling His promise to Abraham?
Nothing and no one would stop God.
Was anything or anyone going to negate God's word?
No, nothing nor no one would negate God's word, even though based on the circumstances at the time, there was absolutely no evidence that Abe would be a father of many nations other than God's promise
Was Mary in existence at the time that Genesis 3:15 was spoken by God?
Absolutely not
The how could the son of Mary be in existence before Abraham if his mother was not in existence before Abraham?
After all, all parents are always older than their children. That is, the parents precede the children in existence. That is how parents are set up
Now, you might say that the body and soul part of Jesus was the part that Mary was the mother of.
Yes, that is true. Likewise God was the parent of the body and soul part of Jesus Christ as well.
We know from scripture that Jesus Christ did not have spirit until he was baptized by John. It is at that baptism that we learn that the spirit of God descended upon him like a dove.
Mark 1:10
And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a
dove descending upon him:
Luke 3:22
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a
dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
John 1:32
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a
dove, and it abode upon him.
God is spirit, John 4:24
It is clear that until the spirit descended upon him, he had no spirit, he was body and soul only
So at the very least, Jesus could not be God because God is spirit and Jesus was not.
Likewise we learn that the spirit descended upon him. It does not say that Jesus as God descended upon the Jesus not God as spirit descended then Jesus not God became Jesus is God.
Indeed Jesus existed as much as Mary existed and the nations that Abe would be the father of did. They existed because God promised them, and His word is true.
God's integrity gives him the right to speak of those things which be not as though they were.
Jesus was well aware of that, thus he could claim knowing God's integrity that as far as the promise of God made it true, Jesus existed because God promised he would.
I can claim that Jesus is going to return and that from that point on, I will ever be with the lord and I am right God to say so because I am saying what God says.
Is there any evidence that anyone can point to, other than scripture, God's written word, that Jesus shall return? None, none whatsoever.
Yet, as far as God is concerned, it is a foregone event that Jesus is going to return.
When you take into consideration, God's integrity and the word of His power, it is clear that Jesus was speaking of the promise of God coming true even I speak of Jesus' return as a foregone conclusion
or as the apostle Paul put it, (For we walk by faith, not by sight
II Cor 5:7
By the way, as my op and subsequent posts clearly point out, Jesus said I am, not because he was claiming to be the "I am" but because he was simply ackknowledging that he is indeed and in truth, Jesus of Nazareth who the were seeking. and I point out with some additional verses why he acknowledged to his captors that he is Jesus of Nazareth.
Until we learn to read what is written all we have is guesswork
Am I right?
I am.
Oh my God, oh wait. I said "I am"
According you, I said, "I am" therefore I must be God!
Have you ever said "I am" then you must be God as well!
Wow! the trinity just turned into a quintity!