ECT You Must Work Out Your Salvation

[Danoh]

What are you talking about.

You're joking; right?

That passage is the supposed basis of the OP's title and its' assertions - duh -uh.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

You're joking; right?

That passage is the supposed basis of the OP's title and its' assertions - duh -uh.

Where is the passage in this thread. Quote the part of my post where it is. I don't have time to be looking all over the place.

 

[Danoh]

Where is the passage in this thread. Quote the part of my post where it is. I don't have time to be looking all over the place.

CC it is mentioned in the OP's very title.

Compare it to that verse.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

CC it is mentioned in the OP's very title.

Compare it to that verse.

(standby.......)

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Was the following passage actually exegeted?

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Was it's location even cited as a reference?

How do you rationalize away this scripture?

 

[Danoh]

How do you rationalize away this scripture?

Your question there; what do YOU mean by it?

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Was the following passage actually exegeted?

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Was it's location even cited as a reference?

What is your understanding of this scripture?

 

[Danoh]

What is your understanding of this scripture?

That depends.

If I ignore not only all that Paul has been talking about, but all that that is based on and that he bases what he says to them on; I end up at a an understanding that is actually based on an oversimplification.

An oversimplification being the isolating of a word, phrase, or passage from its whole or overall scope and context; the result being that one ends up at the old error that is "well what it means to me is..."

You ask what it means to me.

You should be asking not only what was Paul talking about by the time he got to that passage; but what was he basing what he was talking about on?

Until we are agree on that much, we stand the chance of ending up at "well, that is your interpretation."

And what Paul was talking about prior to that passage was about the need for the Believer to have the mind of Christ when He submitted Himself to what the Father was working in and through Him.

The result? As John also put it...

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Notice...

Philippians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

That will be possible BETWEEN THEM when the following is kept in mind...

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He then returns to his proposed solution to them as to the issues between them that he began the chapter with...

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

He is telling them to be the sons of God that God has made them in His Son. He is telling them to do what the Son did AS GOD'S SON; He submitted Himself to what the Father was working in and through Him to the Father's glory in His Son.

Why?

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Believers have that in them as Believers.

The extent to which they work it out; or walk in it in the various details of their lives will depend on the extent to which they walk in this salvation that God has put in them as Believers; that He might then work in them - in the various details of theirs lives as adult sons of God (the adoption or sonship).

The result of putting that first in their dealings with one another and or the various issues of life - victory over them - in the Lord.

The focus...

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The result...

4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

How? Through what focus?

4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. 4:15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

He is writong of his desire that they be who they are - who God has made them in His Son.

It is a theme as to one of various operating principles that are found running throughout Paul's writings to the Body of Christ.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

That depends.

If I ignore not only all that Paul has been talking about, but all that that is based on and that he bases what he says to them on; I end up at a an understanding that is actually based on an oversimplification.

An oversimplification being the isolating of a word, phrase, or passage from its whole or overall scope and context; the result being that one ends up at the old error that is "well what it means to me is..."

You ask what it means to me.

You should be asking not only what was Paul talking about by the time he got to that passage; but what was he basing what he was talking about on?

Until we are agree on that much, we stand the chance of ending up at "well, that is your interpretation."

And what Paul was talking about prior to that passage was about the need for the Believer to have the mind of Christ when He submitted Himself to what the Father was working in and through Him.

The result? As John also put it...

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Notice...

Philippians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

That will be possible BETWEEN THEM when the following is kept in mind...

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He then returns to his proposed solution to them as to the issues between them that he began the chapter with...

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

He is telling them to be the sons of God that God has made them in His Son. He is telling them to do what the Son did AS GOD'S SON; He submitted Himself to what the Father was working in and through Him to the Father's glory in His Son.

Why?

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Believers have that in them as Believers.

The extent to which they work it out; or walk in it in the various details of their lives will depend on the extent to which they walk in this salvation that God has put in them as Believers; that He might then work in them - in the various details of theirs lives as adult sons of God (the adoption or sonship).

The result of putting that first in their dealings with one another and or the various issues of life - victory over them - in the Lord.

The focus...

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The result...

4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

How? Through what focus?

4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. 4:15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

He is writong of his desire that they be who they are - who God has made them in His Son.

It is a theme as to one of various operating principles that are found running throughout Paul's writings to the Body of Christ.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Do you think Paul says that if one has faith it is a good thing, but not necessary, to demonsrate Christ in us (our sonship, His light, His love, humility)... Or do you think Paul says if one has faith, proof of that faith is made manifest by Christ demonstrated in us (Sonship, His light and love, humility)?

 

[Danoh]

Do you think Paul says that if one has faith it is a good thing, but not necessary, to demonsrate Christ in us (our sonship, His light, His love, humility)... Or do you think Paul says if one has faith, proof of that faith is made manifest by Christ demonstrated in us (Sonship, His light and love, humility)?

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

At the same time...

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

At the same time...

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

At conversion, the moment of faith, going foward; do we willingly cooperate with the Spirit in reverence and humility and devotion towards God? Or do we no longer possess any will and are completely controlled by God?

 

[Danoh]

At conversion, the moment of faith, going foward; do we willingly cooperate with the Spirit in reverence and humility and devotion towards God? Or do we no longer possess any will and are completely controlled by God?

:chuckle: What are you; a self-appointed Nazi TOL hallway monitor - all you do is ask questions only to require ask more questions.

Try posting your answers at the same that you post your questions.

Muslims and JWs pull this tactic of yours all the time.

Problem is; the basis of their questions is a skewed one.

Like you; they too believe they are merely attempting to get someone to think a thing through properly.

Reminds me of that episode in The Three Stooges where Curly thinks he is following a turkey recipe right and puts a can of tomatoes, can and all; in the turkey.

Moe walks over; gives him a good smack; pulls out the can; removes its' label and then places the can back in the turkey.

Moe too thinks he is thinking straight.

Ask your questions and share your answers - lets deal with your supposed clear thinking in less back and forth :chuckle:

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

:chuckle: What are you; a self-appointed Nazi TOL hallway monitor - all you do is ask questions only to require ask more questions.

Try posting your answers at the same that you post your questions.

Muslims and JWs pull this tactic of yours all the time.

Problem is; the basis of their questions is a skewed one.

Like you; they too believe they are merely attempting to get someone to think a thing through properly.

Reminds me of that episode in The Three Stooges where Curly thinks he is following a turkey recipe right and puts a can of tomatoes, can and all; in the turkey.

Moe walks over; gives him a good smack; pulls out the can; removes its' label and then places the can back in the turkey.

Moe too thinks he is thinking straight.

Ask your questions and share your answers - lets deal with your supposed clear thinking in less back and forth :chuckle:

I am trying to get a grasp of your theology... Your answers have not been concise.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

:chuckle: What are you; a self-appointed Nazi TOL hallway monitor - all you do is ask questions only to require ask more questions.

Try posting your answers at the same that you post your questions.

Muslims and JWs pull this tactic of yours all the time.

Problem is; the basis of their questions is a skewed one.

Like you; they too believe they are merely attempting to get someone to think a thing through properly.

Reminds me of that episode in The Three Stooges where Curly thinks he is following a turkey recipe right and puts a can of tomatoes, can and all; in the turkey.

Moe walks over; gives him a good smack; pulls out the can; removes its' label and then places the can back in the turkey.

Moe too thinks he is thinking straight.

Ask your questions and share your answers - lets deal with your supposed clear thinking in less back and forth :chuckle:

You argued against the premise, cited the verse that supports the premise and did not give an understanding that invalidated the premise.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

At conversion, the moment of faith, going foward; do we willingly cooperate with the Spirit in reverence and humility and devotion towards God? Or do we no longer possess any will and are completely controlled by God?

Galatians 6:8 clearly states we must continue to willingly submit to Christ, His Spirit.

"...the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life."

 

[Danoh]

I am trying to get a grasp of your theology... Your answers have not been concise.

That's because I think in governing principles.

And I try to provoke others to think in governing principles.

The old proverb "give a man a fish, feed him for a day; teach him how to fish; feed him for a lifetime" is the issue of the need to look at things via governing principles.

If the guy knows how to fish; if he knows the governing principles behind fishing; he will not be back a second later; his hand out once; he knows how to properly extract one thing out of another.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

That's because I think in governing principles.

And I try to provoke others to think in governing principles.

The old proverb "give a man a fish, feed him for a day; teach him how to fish; feed him for a lifetime" is the issue of the need to look at things via governing principles.

If the guy knows how to fish; if he knows the governing principles behind fishing; he will not be back a second later; his hand out once; he knows how to properly extract one thing out of another.

And if people are introduced to Christ and then not told the principle truth that they must continue to submit to Christ; they are left to starve.

 

[Danoh]

And if people are introduced to Christ and then not told the principle truth that they must continue to submit to Christ; they are left to starve.

"Work - and work! Work my fingers to the bone..." - Rolls Royce

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

"Work - and work! Work my fingers to the bone..." - Rolls Royce

Continuing to trust Jesus, submitting to Him, is not work, it's rest for our souls, it's the easiest thing anyone can do... And in that He flows through us, His love.

 

[Danoh]

Continuing to trust Jesus, submitting to Him, is not work, it's rest for our souls, it's the easiest thing anyone can do... And in that He flows through us, His love.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

That right there is the Apostle Paul's version of :doh: