beloved57
Well-known member
Rabbit trail comment!
Ye must be born again !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Rabbit trail comment!
beloved57
Well-known member
God quickens us together with Christ !
Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
All for whom Christ, were quickened together with Christ, meaning when He was quickened from the dead, or made alive from the dead, so were they for whom He died. In the principal of Headship representation [like man in Adam] when Christ was made alive from the dead after having died for the sins of many [Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;], the many for whom sins He died were made alive with Him.
This ensures, makes sure and certain the making alive personally of everyone for whom He died. Thats why Peter wrote 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Believers had been first begotten again through the Resurrection of Christ from the dead. This being begotten again is proof, evidence that we were represented by Christ our Surety Head when He was made alive from the dead after having died for our sins. If we are never begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, then He did not for our sins, and we were never quickened together with Him, its as simple as that !
Eph 2:5
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
All for whom Christ, were quickened together with Christ, meaning when He was quickened from the dead, or made alive from the dead, so were they for whom He died. In the principal of Headship representation [like man in Adam] when Christ was made alive from the dead after having died for the sins of many [Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;], the many for whom sins He died were made alive with Him.
This ensures, makes sure and certain the making alive personally of everyone for whom He died. Thats why Peter wrote 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Believers had been first begotten again through the Resurrection of Christ from the dead. This being begotten again is proof, evidence that we were represented by Christ our Surety Head when He was made alive from the dead after having died for our sins. If we are never begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, then He did not for our sins, and we were never quickened together with Him, its as simple as that !
Nanja
Well-known member
Exactly, and that's why Jesus told Nicodemus, "ye must be born again" John 3:7, because Nicodemus was a Sheep of His John 10:11, Christ Knew (ginōskō) him John 10:14 to be In Him Eph. 1:4, when He was raised from the dead Heb. 13:20!
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
We can always tell when someone is born again. Jesus said, "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)
KingdomRose
New member
"Ye must be born again" IF you are part of Christ's government that will rule over the earth. If you are not, you don't have to be born again. You will live on the earth in paradise conditions forever.
The only reason to be "born again" is to be able to become a spirit person at your death, being CHANGED to meet Jesus in heaven. Those of us who will inherit the earth do not need to be changed. We will keep our physical bodies.
Have no fear, people, if being "born again" is strange & confusing to you. It is only for those with heaven in their future. I welcome the prospect of living in a physical paradise eternally.
beloved57
Well-known member
You quoted a post of mine, did you read and understand the points made with scripture?
KingdomRose
New member
Of course.
beloved57
Well-known member
Ok please prove it. What are the points I made ?
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KingdomRose
New member
OK. (1) A person can't perceive the Kingdom of God as per vs 3, unless he is born again. I understand that verse to mean that a person can't enter into the Kingdom unless he is born again. "Seeing" probably means the same thing here.
(2) Jesus was saying that unless a person is part of his "seed," having been chosen before the foundation of the world, he can't understand the Kingdom of God. I agree that a person who will be part of that Kingdom government must be chosen by God, according to the plan by God which He formed after Adam sinned and before the "world"....that is, the world of alienated mankind that began with Cain. God foreordained a particular GROUP to rule with Christ, even though He chose not to foreknow the INDIVIDUALS in that group.
(3) The Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached throughout the earth before the end comes, as per Matt.24:14. Yes, absolutely. It is Jesus' theme for his entire ministry.
(4) We don't have the ability to cause ourselves to be born again. I agree. It is God who chooses the co-rulers who will be with Christ in heaven. They aren't any better than the rest of Jesus' followers; they just happened to be in line ahead of us. The number of the group of co-rulers has been filled, and now most of us Christians are looking forward to life in paradise on earth forever. (Psalm 37:9-11,29)
beloved57
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again or from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God here is the Gospel, or the Gospel of the kingdom, which is but another name for the Gospel of Jesus Christ,or the Gospel of God's Grace. And a person can't see or understand it unless born again or from above. This entails being given a new heart and new spirit as per Ezk 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you,26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Then a person can see/understand the Gospel of the kingdom,the kingdom of God.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again or from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God here is the Gospel, or the Gospel of the kingdom, which is but another name for the Gospel of Jesus Christ,or the Gospel of God's Grace. And a person can't see or understand it unless born again or from above. This entails being given a new heart and new spirit as per Ezk 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you,26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Then a person can see/understand the Gospel of the kingdom,the kingdom of God.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Your idea is exactly what the Calvinists teach, that being "born again" (regeneration) precedes "faith." That is according to the "logical order of salvation" spoken here by Calvinist R.C. Sproul:
"The 'ordo salutis' is the order of salvation. This focuses on the acts of God and the response of the individual in salvation. God calls us, produces regeneration in us, so that we respond with repentance, faith, and obedience. Behind the divine call is God’s electing decree. The 'ordo salutis' is not concerned with a temporal sequence of events, but with a logical order" (The Order of Salvation, Ligonier Ministries, The Teaching Fellowship of R.C. Sproul).
According to this the logical order is first, God calling us. Then secondly, He produces regeneration (born again) in us. Then finally that enables us to respond in faith.
So being "born again" precedes faith in the Calvinist's logical order. But both Peter and James makes it plain that is is faith which results in being "born again":
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).
"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).
beloved57
Well-known member
Unless a person is born again they can't understand the Gospel.
Paul says the same thing here 1 Cor 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually
The Gospel of Christ is spiritually discerned.
Nanja
Well-known member
So True, only after being given a new heart / mind in New Birth!
That's the reason why so many false gospels are being preached today:
It's because those who preach them are not of God; have never been Born of God or Born Again.
John 8:43, 47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Therefore, they are spiritually unable to Hear the Gospel of God's Grace, which are God's Words:
The Good News is that Grace was Given to all God's Elect Children before the World began:
2 Tim. 1:8-9
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
And it was then that God's Elect Children, who make up the Kingdom of God, were Justified by the same Grace in their Surety Head and Mediator Christ Jesus Heb. 7:22.
Rom. 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Rom. 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
So each one of God's Elect chosen In Union with Christ before the world began, shall be born in Time and be Born Again.
Not by anything they do, but solely by the Work of God: No intervention or participation from man.
This Gospel of God's Grace gives Eternal God all the Glory from start to finish!
beloved57
Well-known member
nanja
A New Heart, after its given, Jesus says they understand the word Matt 13:23
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
I believe the good ground is the new heart given in new birth !
A New Heart, after its given, Jesus says they understand the word Matt 13:23
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
I believe the good ground is the new heart given in new birth !
Nanja
Well-known member
I'm certainly with you on that Brother! :thumb:
Must understand and accept John 3:16
If you are of the elect, why do you need to be born again?
Ask Mr. Religion
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Election is unto salvation, not to salvation. The latter is the hyper's error.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ur-Salvation&p=4860809&viewfull=1#post4860809
The ordinary means by which all God's children (the elect) are brought into the Kingdom are by regenerative re-birth at the time so appointed by God.
AMR