Ye must be born again !

[beloved57]

John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

 

[beloved57]

To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.

Peter said 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word of here is the greek word ek and it means:

out of, from, by, away from

This denotes that being born is out of a seed ! Those who are born physically out of Adam, the corruptible seed, they were in Adam from the beginning of creation. Their physical lives were included in the them . Gen 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 5:2

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.


When Adam was first created he had created within him his wife and his offspring that he was to bring forth, this we know because God said to him after He created him Gen 1:27-28

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

Adam had a seed to bring forth of his kind as all living creatures did.

We know God had given them a seed from these words Gen 3:15

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her [Eve] seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Of course Eve's seed was Adam's seed.

Gen 4:25

25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Now hopefully we see the concept of being born entails first having a existence in a seed. Unfortunately being of ones seed is not determined by the offspring.

For instance, Levi did not determine himself to be of the seed of Abraham, to be in Abraham's loins as here Heb 7:9-10

9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Who determined that Levi was of the seed of Abraham ?

 

[DAN P]

To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.

Hi , and I know that I have asked you this question on other sites .

Where does Paul say that the MEMBERS of the Body of Christ need to be " born again " ???? and I personally ony accept what Paul says in this OUT of context question , bet you can not !!! dan p

 

[Refractive]

He came to Jesus at night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him."
3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."


Footnote to verse 3:

3 [3] Born: see the note on John 1:13. From above: the Greek adverb anothen means both "from above" and "again." Jesus means "from above" (see John 3:31) but Nicodemus misunderstands it as "again." This misunderstanding serves as a springboard for further instruction.

----------

The word appears 13 times in Scripture. It is translated in the KJV as "again" only in John and in Gal 4:9. In every other case it is translated "from above" "from the top" and "from the beginning."

Nicodemus misunderstood Jesus, Who was trying to tell him that without our spiritual nature, we cannot perceive that which is of God.

 

[beloved57]

No one has addressed the question, on how did Levi become of the seed of Abraham, hence ensuring he would be born to Abraham's Family ? This will help to understand Jesus statement, ye must be born again !

 

[beloved57]

Regeneration and being born again !

I find it to be no better time to include in this thread the Truth of regeneration while witnessing to the need of being born again. The truth of the matter is this, in order to be born again, one must first be regenerated. I know many think they are the exact same thing, but they are not, however they are related or connected to one another. Only those being regenerated by their Union with Christ shall be born from above . Now understand this, Regeneration is corporate or collective, and occurred all at once for the entire body of Christ or seed together, by virtue of their union with the risen Christ.

The New Birth is Individual and occurs to each of the regenerated appointed time by God. Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die

This applies equally to spiritually being born. The word born here is the hebrew word yalad and means:

to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail

to beget

The word is used in Isa 66:8

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Each of the regenerated shall be brought forth in their New Birth. Remember when James wrote James 1:18

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The word beget here means to bring forth, James here is describing the New Birth of those who had been regenerated. The word of Truth, which is the Gospel brings this New Birth to light or to manifestation.

Again, Regeneration is corporate, its the sum total of every member of Christ seed, having been in Him when died, was buried, and risen again, they rose together with Him, that was their regeneration from the dead as well, and their being seated together with Him in the Heavenlies [above]. You see when Christ laid down His Life for the Sheep, the Life of the church was laid also [ 2 Cor 5:14], and when He took it again and rose from the dead [Jn 10:17], it was a reproduction or regeneration. Isa 26:19

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

This is the describing in prophecy, the regeneration of Christ [after death] and His Church in Union with Him see [ Eph 2:6] !

 

[beloved57]

Define word regeneration !

In coming to a biblical understanding of the word regeneration, we shall define the word. Its used only Twice in the NT :

Matt 19:28

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The word in the greek is the feminine noun paliggenesia:

) new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration

a) hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death

Its made up of two greek words palin which means:

anew, again

a) renewal or repetition of the action

b) again, anew

And the word genesis which means:

source, origin

a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated

2) used of birth, nativity

3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life

It also means generation as in Matt 1:1

1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

So the word can mean a New Generation, A new beginning, A New existence, or origin, A New source, a New reproduction.

Again, the New Birth is a outcome of this Regeneration.

One of the definitions of regeneration is :


a renewal or restoration of life after death

This Our Lord experienced, in His resurrection.

Acts 3:15

And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 13:34

And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.


Rom 6:9-10

9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

I could multiply scriptures, but the point is to show that in the sense of restoration of life after death, Christ experienced a regeneration.

I believe this is what He meant in Matt 19:28, when He says in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit on the Throne of His Glory.

When did this occur if not after His resurrection ? Scripture plainly intimates that after His suffering, His death and resurrection, He shall enter into His Glory. Lk 24:26,20

26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Suffer what things ? see vs 20

20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

When He rose from the Dead He became Lord of both the dead and the Living Rom 14:9

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

This word revive means the same as regeneration, a restoration of life after death.

After Christ's humiliating death, and His resurrection, He entered into His Mediatorial Glory as both Lord and Christ Acts 2:36

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

He was invested with [from the Father] all power in both Heaven and Earth Matt 28:19

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

If these things were not entering into His Throne of Glory as stated in Matt 19:28, I don't know what is ?

And if so, thats the regeneration He spake of.

Now one more thing about the Matt 19:28, in the original there is no punctuation, that is the translators supply them as they deem it best to their Judgment. In light of that, there should have been a period after the words followed me instead of the comma.

And so it would read Matt 19:28

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me. In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus was specifically telling His Disciples, the ones who followed Him, the Twelve, that they would be Co Rulers with Him in the Spread of His Gospel Kingdom throughout the Earth. Perhaps what Jesus had in mind was this what He spake unto them earlier in Matt 16:17-19

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

This I believe is a direct fulfillment of Isa 32:1

1Behold, a king[Jesus Christ] shall reign in righteousness, and princes[The Twelve] shall rule in judgment.

Now the main point hitherto is that Jesus Christ resurrection from the dead, is a regeneration and entering into His Glory !

 

[beloved57]

More on Regeneration !

Now I have previously shown how the word regeneration can and does mean a renewing, a reviving, a restoring to Life after death, and that Christ's rising from the dead was a regeneration, whereby afterwards He entered into His Glory.

Again, the word regeneration is composed of two greek words, one being :

the word genesis which means: genesis

source, origin

a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated

2) used of birth, nativity

Notice, its a birth.

Now how many scriptures are there that indicates Jesus Christ being a birth or begotten ?

Acts 13:33

God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

The word begotten here is the greek word gennaō and means:


to be born

b) to be begotten

1) of women giving birth to children

The raising up again and the begotten thee are analogous.

Col 1:18

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The word for firstborn here in describing the resurrection of Christ, is the word tiktō and means:


to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed)

a) of a woman giving birth

Rev 1:5

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

So, it can be biblically established that Christ Resurrection from the dead was a Birth or a Generation.

Now, with that in mind, He was the Federal Head of a seed that was in Him, and when He rose from the dead, His seed rose with Him, that is His regeneration from the dead, was also their regeneration from the dead, for He rose not as a private individual, but as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

This is what Paul means also in Eph 2:6, that we were raised up together with Christ. Eph 2:6

6And hath raised us up together,[with Christ] and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This is the regeneration of the Church, collectively, with their Head.

It is by this regeneration, the elect, who were in Christ when He arose, receive their New Birth.

1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Now notice this word begotten us again here, its the same word used in Acts 13:33, and peter uses the plural pronoun us, meaning He and all those who rose up with Christ from the dead.

The NIV translates 1 Pet 1:3 as this:

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


ESV Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

GWT Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! God has given us a new birth because of his great mercy. We have been born into a new life that has a confidence which is alive because Jesus Christ has come back to life

And so, this is the regeneration of the Church, collectively with Christ's resurrection from the dead, and this sets the stage for each member of that seed in Christ, to be born again individually and experimentally.. This is why they are said to be born from above where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Cp Jn 3:3

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again[from above], he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Col 3:1

1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

To be born again is to be born of that regenerated seed of Christ, where He sitteth on the right hand of God with all of His seed with Him.

 

[coulter4president]

in St Jn 3:3 it says that you must be born of WATER and the SPIRIT..

not just one or the other..

"Baptism now saveth you"​

 

[IXOYE]

in St Jn 3:3 it says that you must be born of WATER and the SPIRIT..

not just one or the other..

"Baptism now saveth you"​

And yet there were those that were filled with the Spirit and hadn't been baptised yet....

Does the Spirit inhabit non "saved" people?

Were they not Saved?

 

[IXOYE]

Beloved, can you define what "BORN AGAIN" is?

And you do realize the "BORN AGAIN" concept most people hold today, didn't exist until a few years back when Wesley was teaching in the states, right?

 

[chrysostom]

To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.

so you are not born again?

 

[coulter4president]

And yet there were those that were filled with the Spirit and hadn't been baptised yet....

Does the Spirit inhabit non "saved" people?

Were they not Saved?

well, God is big enough to save someone who has the desire to be saved..

its just that water baptism is the normative means of achieving salvation...

but salvation can be lost...

hence the sacrament of Reconciliation, or Confession

 

[coulter4president]

Beloved, can you define what "BORN AGAIN" is?

And you do realize the "BORN AGAIN" concept most people hold today, didn't exist until a few years back when Wesley was teaching in the states, right?

yes, we need to go back to our roots.. the Original Church

and if ppl will only study history they will see that this Church is the Roman Catholic Church..

it did NOT apostatize in the 4th century with Constantine as some say..

if the Church went into apostacy, that means that Jesus did not keep his word to protect His Church..

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it" (St Mt 16:18)

 

[Sherman]

Beloved, can you define what "BORN AGAIN" is?

And you do realize the "BORN AGAIN" concept most people hold today, didn't exist until a few years back when Wesley was teaching in the states, right?

The born again phrase is much older than that.

John 3:2-4 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

 

[beloved57]

The Washing of Regeneration !

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Now again, the view I have been sharing is making a distinction between regeneration and the new birth or being born again or born from above.

Regeneration is collectively having to do with all the members of Christ seed, that He is the Head of, The Church, and regeneration occurred when they in Him, were raised up together from the Dead. Eph 2:6 and Isa 26:19.

As Jesus was begotten from the dead Rev 1:5, so where they, His death to the Law was their death also. Rom 7:4a

Now, what occurred when Christ died for His seed ? A washing took place. Rev 1:5

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

You see that ? Having Loved us and washed us, this is collectively all at once John is speaking of. This washing took place with Christ blood.

I believe this is the same washing of Titus 3:5, the washing of regeneration. The word for washing here is the greek word loutron and means:

bathing, bath, the act of bathing


And it's from the root word louō which means:

to bathe, wash

And is the same word used in Rev 1:5 for wash.

Loutron the word in Titus 3:5 is also used for the washing described in Eph 5:26

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Notice also that the word washing of water by the word. Notice how the word is said to be washing, so this is not water baptism, but its the water of the Word.

The word water is the same word used in Jn 3:5 and its usage there is primarily in the same subject manner as here.

Also, it is stated, that after Christ resurrection, that before sitting down at the right hand of the Father, He had what ? Why, He had purified us from our sins. Heb 1:3

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This again is a corporate or collective purging of all the seed He represented. The word purge is the word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

So again, a washing, a cleansing is being emphasized, and because its associated with the removal of guilt, blood must have been involved and redemption.

So, this is regeneration, and its corporate, and has to do with the cleansing and washing from sin of all the elect seed in Christ, and this sets the stage for the New Birth which I will deal with next.

 

[coulter4president]

none of those psgs contradicts the fact that sin still affects us humans DEEPLY!

none of those psgs implies that it is OK to sin

or even that its not OK... but no biggie if you do

If you believe in Once Saved Always Saved..

you need to read St Mt 18:23

Matthew 18:23-35
King James Version (KJV)


23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.

29And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.

32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

this guy was TOTALLY forgiven...

yet he lost this gift... through SIN, specifically a lack of forgiveness toward others..

 

[coulter4president]

St Mt 18:23

is a good one to explain Purgatory...

and it is not the o nly one..

 

[coulter4president]

again, Truth has the last word...

you ppl had better HOPE there is a Purgatory..

because from what i have experienced/observed...

most people i know do NOT at all deserve to be in Heaven (if their treatment of yours truly is any indication...)... No, they are far from Heaven since they violate St Mt 25:31-46 on a regular basis... far from being with a Holy God in a Heaven

where - HELLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

There is NO sin...

NO hate

NO viscious name calling

NO telling others they are going to Hell

etc...

etc....

 

[IXOYE]

well, God is big enough to save someone who has the desire to be saved..

its just that water baptism is the normative means of achieving salvation...

but salvation can be lost...

hence the sacrament of Reconciliation, or Confession

No argument from me. Just trying to keep the chat honest.