Wrestling: Civic responsiblities and Christian mandates

Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Lot of scriptures on this. I'll start:

Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Mat 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Mat 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
 
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fzappa13

Well-known member
Lon said:
Lot of scriptures on this. I'll start:

Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Mat 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Mat 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
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I once had a poor gal that I knew in the embrace of various addictions call me, knowing I had latched on to the Bible, and asked me what it was all about. I suggested she read the sermon on the mount. She called back three nights later lit up like a Christmas tree and said "Thas haaarrrrd".


I knew she had at least read the thing.
 
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fzappa13

Well-known member
Nick M said:
Matthew 5 is not any sort of mandate for the Body.
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Yeah, we gotcha Nick. Like the great tribulation, anything that smacks of sacrifice, and, well, most anything in any way unpleasant, difficult or looks like work in the Bible; that's all for them dirty Jews and not your much more precious and worthy self. No need to repeat yourself here. That's what the Theology Club is for.
 
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Nick M

Nick M

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fzappa13 said:
Like the great tribulation, anything that smacks of sacrifice, and, well, most anything in any way unpleasant, difficult or looks like work in the Bible; that's all for them dirty Jews and not your much more precious and worthy self. No need to repeat yourself here. That's what the Theology Club is for.
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Why would you mock what the Lord Jesus Christ taught Israel in preparation for Jacob's trouble?
 
Nick M

Nick M

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Your mandate from Paul is not to not be a vigilante, honor those worthy of honor, men are to work and support their family (Genesis-Revelation), and pay taxes that support authorized government functions.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Nick M said:
Matthew 5 is not any sort of mandate for the Body.
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I'm not understanding this because Paul echoes these words:
Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
Rom 12:20 To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head."
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

He also echoes the sermon on the mount in other passages too:

Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
Rom 12:20 To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head."
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Php 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice.
Php 4:5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand;
Php 4:6 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Php 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Php 4:9 What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me—practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.
"Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone," Col. 4:5-6

2Ti 2:14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.
2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
2Ti 2:17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,

Peter too, though I realize for some this isn't applicable either:
1Pe 3:8 Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.
1Pe 3:9 Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing.
1Pe 3:10 For "Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit;
1Pe 3:11 let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.
1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
1Pe 3:13 Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good?
1Pe 3:14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled,
1Pe 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
1Pe 3:16 having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
1Pe 3:17 For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil.

I think MAD should pay attention:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

:idunno: I don't think MAD can argue with Paul? I'm not MAD so would have to have this explained if I'm not getting something here and thanks ahead of time if such is the case.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Lon said:
I think MAD should pay attention:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

:idunno: I don't think MAD can argue with Paul? I'm not MAD so would have to have this explained if I'm not getting something here and thanks ahead of time if such is the case.
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I believe in the fruits of the spirit
 
Lon

Lon

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Nick M said:
Are you really going to obfuscate this? I can show Moses saying the same thing. So Paul taught the law of Moses and wanted us to keep it?
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Well, realize I'm not MAD so I'm not understanding the mechanics of which applies and doesn't when the Beatitudes seem to be a running theme that crosses all platforms. Again, if not, I'd just like it explained. There is no obfuscation. When I posted them, I had genuinely thought that it crossed all platforms and never envisioned it being a problem for MAD :idunno:
 
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fzappa13

Well-known member
Lon said:
Well, realize I'm not MAD so I'm not understanding the mechanics of which applies and doesn't when the Beatitudes seem to be a running theme that crosses all platforms. Again, if not, I'd just like it explained. There is no obfuscation. When I posted them, I had genuinely thought that it crossed all platforms and never envisioned it being a problem for MAD :idunno:
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Like a communal/generational tapestry, the Bible is a series of common threads that run across the entirety of the offerings of each scribe as they all spoke at the behest of the same Author. For me, this is one of several of the aspects of the Bible that argues for its authenticity. Paul said there would be divisions WHEN HE LEFT ... and so it was. Few of those who claim him as their revelator give this proper consideration I suspect. Indeed this was already going on in his day and though he admonished against it in writing few heeded his plea. If that was true then it is surely true now if not more so.

Said another way, it has been my experience that what it is that divides Christians is usually exactly what it is that they have misunderstood.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
fzappa13 said:
Like a communal/generational tapestry, the Bible is a series of common threads that run across the entirety of the offerings of each scribe as they all spoke at the behest of the same Author. For me, this is one of several of the aspects of the Bible that argues for its authenticity. Paul said there would be divisions WHEN HE LEFT ... and so it was. Few of those who claim him as their revelator give this proper consideration I suspect. Indeed this was already going on in his day and though he admonished against it in writing few heeded his plea. If that was true then it is surely true now if not more so.

Said another way, it has been my experience that what it is that divides Christians is usually exactly what it is that they have misunderstood.
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Thus, in our flesh (how we live in the world, not the sin nature persay here), we are part of the U.S. and called as citizens, to do our part. As Christians, we are called to a higher purpose that is mostly concerned with spirituality. This spirituality is not seen by science, and we even have a few on TOL who can only think and live in those terms. Lest we forget Ephesians 6:12,13
 
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fzappa13

Well-known member
Lon said:
Thus, in our flesh (how we live in the world, not the sin nature persay here), we are part of the U.S. and called as citizens, to do our part. As Christians, we are called to a higher purpose that is mostly concerned with spirituality. This spirituality is not seen by science, and we even have a few on TOL who can only think and live in those terms. Lest we forget Ephesians 6:12,13
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Having lived elsewhere I likely have a somewhat greater appreciation for what it means to live in the U.S. than those of us so blessed who have not. That said, I now see myself as a member of a nation not yet born ... I'm guessing you know your Bible well enough to know what I am talking about.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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Ephesians 5

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret
 
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