Why would God need a hell?

[Mickiel]

Why would the 611 Laws of Moses or the 10 commandments totally ignore the Christian hell? No mention of it at all! What's going on here?

Riddle that to yourself.

 

[serpentdove]

Before I go off to bed...

Write the law on your bedpost (Deut 6:9). That might help you. :idunno:

"And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thine house, and on thy gates. To put them in mind of them when they went out and came in, that they might be careful to observe them; this the Jews take literally also, and write in a scroll of parchment this section with some passages; and, as the Targum of Jonathan here, fix them in three places, over against the bed chamber, upon the posts of the house, and on the gate at the right hand of it; and this is what they call the Mezuzah; and the account given of it is this. In a parchment prepared for the purpose, they write the words in Deuteronomy 6:4 and then roll up the parchment, and write on it "Shaddai"; and put it either into a cane (or reed), or else into a like hollow piece of wood, and so fasten it to the wall on the posts of the door at the right hand of entrance; and thus, as often as they go in and out, they make it a part of their devotion to touch this parchment, and kiss it (t)." (t) Buxtorf. Synag. Jud. c. 31. p. 582, &c. Leo Modena's History of the Rites and Customs of the Jews, par. 1. c. 2. p. 5, 6.

...[L]et me open up Isaiah 66:9 a bit more

"Is 66:7–9 Here is another comparison with the human birth process (see 13:8), this time to teach two lessons: 1) no birth can come until labor pains have occurred (vv. 7, 8); and 2) when labor occurs, birth will surely follow (v. 9). Cf. Jer. 30:6, 7; Matt. 24:8; 1 Thess. 5:3. The point is that Israel’s suffering will end with a delivery! The Lord will not impose travail on the remnant without bringing them to the kingdom (v. 10)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1057). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

 

[Mickiel]

Don't you find it seriously lacking that eternal hell punishing is not mentioned in the book of Genesis, Exodus or Leviticus ;
its not mentioned in Deuteronomy or;

Joshua
Judges
Ruth
1and 2nd Samuel
1 or 2nd Kings
1 or 2nd Chronicles
Ezra
Nehemiah
Job
Psalms
or Proverbs

Eternal hell punishing or warnings of it is not mentioned at all in the book of Ecclesiates
Song of Solomon
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Lamentations
Ezekiel
Daniel or Hosea. Eternal hell punishing is not explained to any people , its not described, its not given any kind of attention at all in the book of Joel or;
Amos
Obdadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah or the book of Malachi. How could religion be brainwashed without the use of any of these books? Its stunning! This unholy deception OBVIOUSLY has the help of a Great spiritual Power.

 

[KingdomRose]

I have no problem believing what it says; it says " They were called Christians", now WHO called them that? God and Christ did not call them that, they did not call themselves that; pagans called them that. Why should God use pagans to give his people an official title?

I often wonder why people point to this argument, that Christ's followers didn't call themselves "Christian." In fact, it is an appropriate designation, because all it means is "one who follows Christ." I think it is a fitting title.

 

[Mickiel]

Eternal hell punishing is not mentioned in the books of John, Romans or 2 Corinthians. There is no mention of it in;
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 and 2nd Thessalonians
1 and 2nd Timothy
Titus
Philemon
1 Peter
1, 2nd or 3rd John
Or the book of Jude.

As important as this stripping doctrine would be if it were true, don't you think the word of God would cover it exclusively? Notice how the Christians have to scramble to the very few places where they think they have proof to defend it. Its hard to defend this hell , because its an absurdity!

 

[KingdomRose]

The Bible is the only book Jehovah bequeathed to humanity so mankind can understand God and his will. Any opinions outside of Gods words in the Bible in respect of God clearly can only be subjective, and therefore are uninspired and do not originate with God, as 2 Tim 3:16 tells us the Bible is his inspired word.

I agree with you, and I want to say too that it is frivolous to argue about who called Christ's followers "Christian." It is a non-issue. It's down-right silly. It's like a pagan coming up to you or me and saying,"Oh, you worship Jehovah and tell everybody about him. You could be called one of Jehovah's witnesses!" It's the truth! We wouldn't discard our designation just because some pagan nailed it down. I hope anyone reading this will see my point and drop the objection.

 

[KingdomRose]

In my view, eternal hell is an example of conscious Christianity and how those humans think about punishing other humans that have no membership in their club. How a supposedly sane mind would settle the issue of fairness. Here we have a human would rejected Christ for, lets say 70 years of their life. Now here we have a Christian mind that will decide the punishment for this sorry life. Notice the " Over kill" of the Christian mind; punish this person forever! For 70 years of sin, they get an eternity in hell; they get 909,888,645 trillion years of suffering- then just as much more, then billions of years more, then quadrillion of years more, and this vicious cycle continues on into infinity! And this incredible way of thinking is labeled " Righteous?"

Stunning overkill!

And this Christian mind would have us believe that God has sanctioned this insane horror!

Amazing. Truly amazing that the worlds leading religion has actually interpreted this overkill to be something God would do. This is one reason this world is in serious trouble; our leading religion is peddling this to be true. They will argue with you up and down that this is true.

Our God would have to be a radical crack in reality for this to be true. Nothing about eternal hell has our great God's fingerprints on it. So God is being totally misunderstood by his own children, because I think Christianity are the children of God; they just got him pegged wrong.

Very well said. God says he "is love." (IJohn 4:8) Love doesn't countenance for a second the horrible, excruciating pain that fire would wreak on someone's flesh. Not for a second, never mind forever!

 

[KingdomRose]

Shall we limit God just as we also limit our experience of God? Is God separate from power and knowledge

Of course not. I and others here are simply taking the Scriptures for what they clearly say. The say that Jehovah resides in Heaven. He has a place of residence. But, as I said before, His knowledge and power extend to all corners of the universe and beyond. He is "omniscient."

 

[Mickiel]

I often wonder why people point to this argument, that Christ's followers didn't call themselves "Christian." In fact, it is an appropriate designation, because all it means is "one who follows Christ." I think it is a fitting title.

Well it is a fitting title, one which I think believers should know the proper origin of. There are ways that seem right to us all, but what were the real origins of those ways? Christmas and Easter seem right, bur research their true origins and the picture changes. You are a Jehovah's Witness , the world has given Jehovah many , many names that seem right, seems like a harmless practice, but research those names and what will you find?

Holloween seems right, Valentines day seems right, the celebration of birthdays seems alright, a lot of these practices has just " Fit into this world." Tithing seems right, although the original church did not do it. It seems right that Adam was the first human created, but archaeology has given a much different picture.

This world is full of titles and things that seem right.

 

[KingdomRose]

Christ said "depart from Me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

Put that in yer pipe and smoke it.

How about opening up your eyes? Jesus' references to "everlasting fire" meant the total annihilation of the wicked....not a literal place where Satan and his followers would be tortured forever. What does fire really do? It burns something until it is gone. The thing that you want eliminated is incinerated, true?

You dwell on the process itself, not the end result. Jesus was speaking about the end result. Obliteration. Destruction.

 

[Mickiel]

Why let Christianity put mental hang ups in your mind about the real future of humanity, when you have the word of God sitting right there with you? Look in it and see for yourself. In Isaiah 35:10, " The ransomed of the Lord shall return and come to Zion with songs and EVERLASTING Joy upon their heads; they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sighing shall flee away!" This is the future of all of humanity. Now Christians may try and remove everyone from the outcome of this wonderful verse, but they can't change the word of God in 1 Tim. 2:6 where clearly Jesus gives himself a ransom for ALL!

Everyone is the ransomed of the Lord.

 

[Nanja]

How about opening up your eyes? Jesus' references to "everlasting fire" meant the total annihilation of the wicked....not a literal place where Satan and his followers would be tortured forever. What does fire really do? It burns something until it is gone. The thing that you want eliminated is incinerated, true?

You dwell on the process itself, not the end result. Jesus was speaking about the end result. Obliteration. Destruction.

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me,
ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

The Greek word for "everlasting" is aiōnios:

III. without end, never to cease, everlasting

See the difference between God's Word and your human understanding?

~~~~~

 

[Mickiel]

Notice 1 Corinth. 15:53, " For this corruptible will put on incorruption, this mortal will put on immortality!" Do you see this? This means no matter how corruptible you deem someone to be, they can be changed by the power of God. All the corrupt humans you wish to list, will put on incorruption in the Kingdom of God, its a place of complete transformation for humans. And I think the lake of fire will have a role in this transformation.

A lake of fire in heaven is not viewed like we have been conditioned to view it. In heaven its a beautiful thing with a positive purpose.

 

[KingdomRose]

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me,
ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

The Greek word for "everlasting" is aiōnios:

III. without end, never to cease, everlasting

See the difference between God's Word and your human understanding?

~~~~~

No. What I said harmonizes with that scripture. I said that Jesus was telling us the END of the wicked----obliteration. The "everlasting" part means that they will be forever gone. It is truly an "everlasting" punishment. They will be annihilated forever.

:duh:

 

[Mickiel]

Look closely at this wonderful scripture in 2 Tim. 1:19, " But now is made manifest by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death, and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel!" Death has been abolished, which means done away with, there will not even be eternal death for humans, death will be rendered void- meaning no use for it. No need to kill humans forever, life is now the main focus; eternal life, or immortality will be brought to the light.

Eternal life will only be spent in the light, not some eternity in darkness for unbelievers. Now we can begin to see that our destiny is to really live forever in the light of God; because the light of God is so bright, in eternity there will be no need for the Sun, Rev. 21:23, the Glory of God will be the Light!

This is stunning revelation about God in eternity, he IS the light of heaven! The light of his entire endless expanse in this new universe! There will not be some sectioned off corner of darkness. In Rev. 4:3 John said to look at God, was like looking at a Jasper or a sardine stone , they are brown, yellow and reddish in color; so God is colorful in his appearance.

 

[KingdomRose]

Notice 1 Corinth. 15:53, " For this corruptible will put on incorruption, this mortal will put on immortality!" Do you see this? This means no matter how corruptible you deem someone to be, they can be changed by the power of God. All the corrupt humans you wish to list, will put on incorruption in the Kingdom of God, its a place of complete transformation for humans. And I think the lake of fire will have a role in this transformation.

A lake of fire in heaven is not viewed like we have been conditioned to view it. In heaven its a beautiful thing with a positive purpose.

Where does it say that the lake of fire is in heaven? I doubt it!!! Anyway, why refer to Scripture when you don't accept most of it? The Scripture says that the wicked will die. It indicates that they will be annihilated. Yet you reject that. I can't discuss something with someone who cherry-picks scriptures to back up their belief. We must consider ALL Scripture.

There is nothing POSITIVE about the lake of fire. That is where Satan and his demons and "everyone not found in the book of life" are going. There is NO indication of anything positive coming out of that except that the wicked won't be around any more to cause suffering.

 

[Mickiel]

Where does it say that the lake of fire is in heaven? I doubt it!!! Anyway, why refer to Scripture when you don't accept most of it? The Scripture says that the wicked will die. It indicates that they will be annihilated. Yet you reject that. I can't discuss something with someone who cherry-picks scriptures to back up their belief. We must consider ALL Scripture.

There is nothing POSITIVE about the lake of fire. That is where Satan and his demons and "everyone not found in the book of life" are going. There is NO indication of anything positive coming out of that except that the wicked won't be around any more to cause suffering.

I am not forcing you to discuss anything with me; I wish you peace on your journey.


Why would God need a hell, when we have a Jesus? And that Jesus has the power to subdue all things, Phil.3:21. The salvation of all is academic!

 

[way 2 go]

I think it means the people will be separated from the demons. Anyhow, I do believe humans will be placed into the lake of fire. !

:dizzy:

 

[Nanja]

No. What I said harmonizes with that scripture. I said that Jesus was telling us the END of the wicked----obliteration. The "everlasting" part means that they will be forever gone. It is truly an "everlasting" punishment. They will be annihilated forever.

:duh:

My point exactly! I knew you wouldn't see the difference between God's Word and your human understanding.

~~~~~

 

[Mickiel]

:dizzy:

Oh yes, I believed Jesus prophecy, I just see more salvation in it; Mark 9:49, " For EVERYONE will be salted with fire !" I think a bath in fire is the predestiny of us all! But this fire will season us, and I think cause the cleansing new birth. And this " Fire salt" is good, verse 50. I think its a lake in heaven of fire, and its a therapeutic lake. I think there is yet another lake in heaven, Rev. 22:1, and it too is for healing; its all about salvation and healing.