Why would God need a hell?

[Mickiel]

Well I may have exaggerated by saying Jesus mentions heaven 200 times, but he does mention it far more than he did hell, or the grave. The bible itself mentions hell only 53 times; 31 times its sheol, the grave, 10 times its hades, still the grave, 12 times it is Gehanna the valley of hinnom. 1 time its Tartaros. The bible mentions heaven over 1500 times. Your statement was a stunning falsehood , as is much of the Christian teachings I have studied.

 

[Crucible]

Paradise and Hell are orthodox beliefs, never challenged for all of Christian history even by liberators therein.

I have not stated any 'stunning falsehood'. YOU are a walking stunning falsehood. You go by specific words being relayed, I talk about warnings thereof. You can sit there and deceive yourself, but it doesn't change reality- Hell is a part of both Christian and Islamic belief because it outright surfaced with the Messiah's revelations.

You simply want to redefine who the Christian God is, and the judgement He has ordained.

 

[Mickiel]

.

I have not stated any 'stunning falsehood'.

You stated that Jesus spoke of hell more than he did heaven, that is not only false, its stunningly false! Nowhere even near true. Now you act as if you never said that. You just did not know you were wrong. Any concordance would show the truth with just a small amount of study. Hey when your wrong, your just wrong; learn from it and move on.

 

[Crucible]

You stated that Jesus spoke of hell more than he did heaven, that is not only false, its stunningly false! Nowhere even near true. Now you act as if you never said that. You just did not know you were wrong. Any concordance would show the truth with just a small amount of study. Hey when your wrong, your just wrong; learn from it and move on.

Jesus warns about Hell and destruction than he does about salvation. But I know that you, a Hell denier- and probably one of those who basically overlook anything hard in the Bible- wouldn't see it if it were in front of your face.

You are *stunningly* outside of orthodoxy and the reality of God's judgement upon the wicked. You're nothing more than self-righteous and so soft you'd crumble at the mere sight of a hammer. To make this your primary reason to be on a theology sight tells all.

 

[Mickiel]

Jesus warns about Hell and destruction than he does about salvation. But I know that you, a Hell denier- and probably one of those who basically overlook anything hard in the Bible- wouldn't see it if it were in front of your face.

You are *stunningly* outside of orthodoxy and the reality of God's judgement upon the wicked. You're nothing more than self-righteous and so soft you'd crumble at the mere sight of a hammer. To make this your primary reason to be on a theology sight tells all.

I am soft on salvation, and soft on what I think humanity needs from God. I don't think humanity needs the hammer from God, I think we need his love, mercy, forgiveness , goodness and grace. In fact I am convinced of it. I know WHY people are wicked and how wickedness even came to be , and humans were not the root cause of it. Its not man's fault that evil and wickedness exist; but that's another thread, and like you said, this topic is my primary focus here.

 

[Mickiel]

Hey, explain to yourself why would God need a hell, when Jesus did not come here to destroy men's lives, but to save them, Luke 9:56? What you think Jesus does not know how to save unbelievers? Saving an unbeliever is more easy than saving a believer. Remember when you were one?

 

[Mickiel]

If you were a god would you create an eternal hell?

Then ask yourself why?

How would you set up salvation?

 

[ok doser]

If you were a god would you create an eternal hell?

sure

Then ask yourself why?

gotta put them evil people somewhere

How would you set up salvation?

why, looky here - Jesus done tole us Hisself:

john 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Mickiel]

When men set up hell, notice how they had to get excessive with it; instead of setting it up as a two or ten year punishing, they made it an eternity of punishing. How like men. 100 years would have seemed reasonable, but they had to go with 7 trillion times 80 billion times 567 thousand times 900 trillion and on into infinity, and then teach the world that God would approve of this madness.

 

[ok doser]

When men set up hell, notice how they had to get excessive with it; instead of setting it up as a two or ten year punishing, they made it an eternity of punishing. How like men. 100 years would have seemed reasonable, but they had to go with 7 trillion times 80 billion times 567 thousand times 900 trillion and on into infinity, and then teach the world that God would approve of this madness.

there's nothing in scripture to suggest "a two or ten year punishing"

there's plenty in scripture to support eternal punishment

 

[freelight]

Understanding 'terms'......

Understanding 'terms'......

there's nothing in scripture to suggest "a two or ten year punishing"

there's plenty in scripture to support eternal punishment

The doctrine of ECT is insane and can be rejected on principle alone. See here.

There is MORE scriptural evidence for 'Conditional Immortality', and if you serious about consider the evidence, go here. Seriously, review the evidence.

 

[ok doser]

The doctrine of ECT is insane...

well, no

not anymoreso than eternal salvation

 

[Mickiel]

Do you know how big a hell would have to be, to fit all the humans the Christians are projecting will be in it? It would have to be bigger than the Eastern hemisphere.

 

[ok doser]

Do you know how big a hell would have to be, to fit all the humans the Christians are projecting will be in it? It would have to be bigger than the Eastern hemisphere.

:think:

so what? :idunno:

 

[Mickiel]

Can God save everybody? Ask Job, in 42:2, " I know that you can do EVERYTHING!" Saving everyone is included in that. And I believe God can do it, will do it, has done it; wants to do it, has the power to do it, has the love to do it;


has the Christ to do it. And needs no belief in it from his followers.

 

[ok doser]

Saving everyone is included in that.

so is sending those who have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation


just like Jesus sez:

john 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Mickiel]

God is our salvation- not a church, not a book, not a preacher or a pastor, not a religion--- God IS salvation, Psalms 27:1.

We don't need religious rules, we don't need a religion to save us. We don't need to follow believers in God, they are not our salvation. We have all we need

God!

 

[Mickiel]

When believers in God talk more about hell than they do heaven, they have lost their savor; Matt. 5:13; they have lost their first love, the desire for the salvation of all. The salt has lost its savor, citizens of the Kingdom are not preaching the Kingdom, the salvation; they are bearing witness to hell.

 

[freelight]

Please do some more research.......

Please do some more research.......

well, no

not anymoreso than eternal salvation

You're not getting it, neither have you apparently read all the commentaries, resource articles with proofs or considered this issue in its total implications. You're mind is made up, without a desire to really Research whats been provided you here and elsewhere. Again, I challenge you to read all the evidences put forth in the shared resource site that's been provided ,...this is for your own benefit, if you would be so brave to discover facts and truth for yourself, having the proper info. from which to draw a more informed conclusion.

The concept of 'eternal salvation' or 'eternal life', a person receiving the divine nature or divine kind of life that endures into the ages, or for a particular 'age' is NOT insane....since this is available for one's own choosing, and God's good pleasure to give as a GIFT.

What is insane is the assumption that this God of LOVE is going to condemn and DETAIN souls in a lake of fire (or any space of containment) for all eternity, in a state of suffering, pain, agony, sorrow, misery, without allowing for them to EVER have any relief, hope or salvation whatsoever. This is imposing a punishment that is TO NO END (it accomplishes nothing; the suffering has no corrective purpose leading to the soul's repentance or reformation....at least in Universalism the soul undergoes a period of purgatorial suffering and is then rehabilitated thereby....in ECT, there is no resolve or rehabilitation, again its just eternal torture....TO NO END. That is INSANE.

~*~*~

More on the word 'aion', 'aionios' (and its derivatives)- see Here

 

[Timotheos]

so is sending those who have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation


just like Jesus sez:

john 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

"unto the resurrection of damnation" is not a very good translation of "eis anastasin kriseos". A better translation is "into the resurrection of judgment". I suggest that you look up the word "kriseos" (krisis) in a Greek lexicon. It means "judgment, judging, condemnation, punishment, justice". It doesn't mean "damned to hell to be tortured alive forever".