Why would God need a hell?

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Mickiel

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So its a fight for sinners.

A fight is on, one group wants to put the sinners in hell and keep them there forever, the other group wants them completely forgiven and completely saved.

And these basically are the two ways to look at scripture; a limited salvation and an unlimited one. And they are two ways to measure the heart of God.
 

LightSon

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Mickiel, Like I said, you ask many good questions. It isn’t your questions that bother me, but rather your statements that (seem) to go against scripture. What I need to see is someone who handles scripture properly. I note that you cherry-pick verses to make a point and ignore verses that argue against your point. All scripture, the counsel of God needs to be considered. The Lord said, “He that believeth on [Jesus] is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” That says something quite a bit different than “everybody gets in”.
If God is preparing to force everyone into heaven, this verse doesn’t allude to it. Those who do not believe are "condemned already". What is your response?
 

Mickiel

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Mickiel, Like I said, you ask many good questions. It isn’t your questions that bother me, but rather your statements that (seem) to go against scripture. What I need to see is someone who handles scripture properly. I note that you cherry-pick verses to make a point and ignore verses that argue against your point. All scripture, the counsel of God needs to be considered. The Lord said, “He that believeth on [Jesus] is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” That says something quite a bit different than “everybody gets in”.
If God is preparing to force everyone into heaven, this verse doesn’t allude to it. Those who do not believe are "condemned already". What is your response?


My response is that most modern versions does not use the term " Condemn" in John 3:18, they use " Judge", " He that believes on him is judged already, and he who believes not is judged already. Condemn is just the wrong term to use. But even if a translation uses " Condemn", then I think verse 19 is part of my answer and response. If humans are " Condemned, or Judged", verse 19 gives what the judgment or condemnation is, " 19. And this is the condemnation, ( or judgment), that light is come into the world and men loved the darkness." This means " Spiritual blindness", so spiritual blindness IS the condemnation, nowhere does this verse in John 3:18 claim that the condemnation is the Christian version of eternal hell.
 

Mickiel

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You search the scriptures for life, not for the condemnation of people. Look into the bible for salvation, not for some hell. John 5:39. Look for grace and mercy; probe it for forgiveness and hope for unbelievers.

Look for salvation; its a book of salvation, its not a book of hell.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
You search the scriptures for life, not for the condemnation of people. Look into the bible for salvation, not for some hell. John 5:39. Look for grace and mercy; probe it for forgiveness and hope for unbelievers.

Look for salvation; its a book of salvation, its not a book of hell.

:doh:

so blind :nono:

john 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
 

serpentdove

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...[M]ost modern versions does not use the term " Condemn" in John 3:18, they use " Judge...

"John 3:18

Is not judged (οὐ κρινεται [ou krinetai]). Present passive indicative. Trust in Christ prevents condemnation, for he takes our place and pays the penalty for sin for all who put their case in his hands (Rom. 8:32f.). The believer in Christ as Saviour does not come into judgment (John 5:24). Hath been judged already (ἠδη κεκριται [ēdē kekritai]). Perfect passive indicative of κρινω [krinō]. Judgment has already been passed on the one who refuses to believe in Christ as the Saviour sent by the Father, the man who is not willing to come to Christ for life (5:40). Because he hath not believed (ὁτι μη πεπιστευκεν [hoti mē pepisteuken]). Perfect active indicative of πιστευω [pisteuō], has taken a permanent attitude of refusal. Here ὁτι μη [hoti mē] states the reason subjectively as the judgment of the Judge in any such case (ὁ μη πιστευων [ho mē pisteuōn] already mentioned) while in 1 John 5:10 ὁτι οὐ πεπιστευκεν [hoti ou pepisteuken] gives the reason objectively (οὐ [ou] instead of μη [mē]) conceived as an actual case and no longer hypothetical. See 1:12 for εἰς το ὀνομα [eis to onoma] with πιστευω [pisteuō] (believing on the name) and 1:14 for μονογενους [monogenous] (only begotten) and also 3:16." Robertson, A. T. (1933). Word Pictures in the New Testament (Jn 3:18). Nashville, TN: Broadman Press.
 

serpentdove

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Banned
[John 5:39]

"Jn 5:39. Search the scriptures, &c.—“In the Scriptures ye find your charter of eternal life; go search them then, and you will find that I am the Great Burden of their testimony; yet ye will not come to Me for that life eternal which you profess to find there, and of which they tell you I am the appointed Dispenser.” (Compare Ac 17:11, 12). How touching and gracious are these last words! Observe here (1) The honor which Christ gives to the Scriptures, as a record which all have a right and are bound to search—the reverse of which the Church of Rome teaches; (2) The opposite extreme is, resting in the mere Book without the living Christ, to direct the soul to whom is its main use and chiefest glory." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 137). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

A Praise of David.

I will extol You, my God, O King; And I will bless Your name forever and ever.
Every day I will bless You,
And I will praise Your name forever and ever.
Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised;
And His greatness is unsearchable.

One generation shall praise Your works to another,
And shall declare Your mighty acts.
I will meditate on the glorious splendor of Your majesty,
And on Your wondrous works.
Men shall speak of the might of Your awesome acts,
And I will declare Your greatness.
They shall utter the memory of Your great goodness,
And shall sing of Your righteousness.

The Lord is gracious and full of compassion,
Slow to anger and great in mercy.
The Lord is good to all,
And His tender mercies are over all His works.

All Your works shall praise You, O Lord,
And Your saints shall bless You.
They shall speak of the glory of Your kingdom,
And talk of Your power,
To make known to the sons of men His mighty acts,
And the glorious majesty of His kingdom.
Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And Your dominion endures throughout all generations.

The Lord upholds all who fall,
And raises up all who are bowed down.
The eyes of all look expectantly to You,
And You give them their food in due season.
You open Your hand
And satisfy the desire of every living thing.

The Lord is righteous in all His ways,
Gracious in all His works.
The Lord is near to all who call upon Him,
To all who call upon Him in truth.
He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him;
He also will hear their cry and save them.
The Lord preserves all who love Him,
But all the wicked He will destroy.
My mouth shall speak the praise of the Lord,
And all flesh shall bless His holy name
Forever and ever. Ps 145
 

Mickiel

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While we sin, right now sinning; all who are sinning and all who have ever sinned , Jesus death applies to you and your sins are covered, past, present and future; Romans 5:8. This is the gospel; and its hope for unbelievers.
 

serpentdove

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[Romans 5:8]
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us [Rom. 5:8].

"He died for you and me. That is where God revealed His love. And God doesn’t save us by love. He now saves us by grace because the guilt of sin has been removed by the death of Christ, and He can hold out His arms and save you today." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Romans 1-8) (electronic ed., Vol. 42, pp. 93–94). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Just for the Halibut........

Just for the Halibut........



Bingo.......ZIP!

Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Tartaroo.....all refer to different and various regions or locations. At best 'Gehenna' later became associated with the 'lake of fire' concept in the book of Revelation, or place of suffering, but it seems Jesus made reference to Gehenna more as a place of waste, desolation, ruin, destruction, DEATH. - all that was thrown into the fires of Gehenna, was incinerated or eaten by maggots...so it was a picture of complete and final ruin, for whatever was thrown into it (NOTHING in these fires was imagined or assumed to be tormented forever and ever). - this is only the figurative speech found in Revelation which too many take literally, unfortunately.
 

Mickiel

New member
Why would God need a hell? Why would God need a religion? Why would God need money? Why would God need a church?

Why? For what?

Why would God need your support?
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
btw, this is Jesus talking:
john 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
 

Mickiel

New member
Hell is disappearing from the bible, evaporating from our fears, and its traditional error being revealed; knowledge is being increased.
 

Mickiel

New member
Its just too bad that certain believers cannot hog heaven to themselves, while they preach hell and damnation; Joel 2:28, " And it SHALL COME TO PAST that I will pour my spirit out on ALL FLESH!" Whoop there it is again, the awesome inclusion of salvation and the exclusion of the Christian hell.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Its just too bad that certain believers cannot hog heaven to themselves, while they preach hell and damnation....


Jesus preaches damnation:

john 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



why do you ignore His words?
 
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