Why would God need a hell?

[Prizebeatz1]

Sad but true. The injustice of their concept of 'hellfire' magnifies the absurdity of it all, plus the insanity which warps a sense of true justice to the point of self-torture and eternal fatalism. Life is what you make of it, be it heavenly or hellish, and every soul is conditioned by the law of karma (action - sequence - consequence). The law of responsibility is wholly fair and each reap what they sow thereby. The law of progress also sees that all suffering and pain can lead to corrective measures and reformation, and all potentials ultimately tend toward their fulfilment. To keep souls forever in a state of eternal stagnation and suffering is illogical to love and antithetical to life. To assume 'God' is behind such is doubly incredulous.

+1. We need to see just how badly we are attached to our beliefs and how this creates hell. We are so busy holding on that we are not aware of our connection to the universe, to what is infinite and eternal and therefore to God. We think it's so important to hold on to our beliefs that we are blindsided. Understand the enemy is the identity behind the attachment. It is the very thing that keeps us feeling separate from God. We fear this awareness. We are too proud to admit falling for its tricks as we will hate ourselves even more and so we avoid feeling the pain, guilt and shame of this realization at all costs. Sweeping it under the rug causes the dust monster to grow bigger and uglier and we have hell. The enemy does not want us to know this. Once we find out it will lose its effectiveness at evading our detection.

Please do not to judge or hate the enemy. Just watch and see what it is doing, how it is doing it and why. Question it thoroughly until the questioning becomes a way of life no matter how long it takes and regardless of the consequences. This creates distance which leaves room for the seeds of consciousness to grow. In time we loosen our attachment to the false identity. Space dethrones it. This is the yeast that permeates the dough. It is the symbolic blood and flesh of Jesus. No one goes to the Father (infinity and eternity) except through me. This is our soul. It is our connection to God and the universe. John 3:16 points to the infinite and eternal spaciousness of the soul. This is the interface between man and God. Do not doubt.

Do not fear letting go of the personality because of the feeling that there will be nothing left. It's to the contrary. Fully letting go of the personality shows us the reality of what is infinite and eternal. There will be feelings of emptiness and worthlessness which can seem overwhelming. If we keep our awareness on the true identity of the soul as Peter walking on the water next to Jesus we will not sink. The true identity also has the quality of genuine self-worth which provides the confidence we need to move through the feelings of emptiness and worthlessness with grace and ease. It is everything we could ever want and need and much much much much more. Hell is no match.

 

[Timotheos]

Ah, so "I personally don't like it" is your only mantra and objection then. Gotcha. If you were God, I'd worry. A limited finite fallen creature? :nono:

Actually, if you have been following this discussion, "I personally don't like it" is NOT the only objection to the false teaching of eternal conscious torture in hell.

Freelight has given many other reasons to believe that God doesn't torture people in hell forever, why did you ignore them and make the false claim that "I personally don't like it" is the only mantra and objection? Because that sounds better than "Freelight has investigated the evidence and has come to a different conclusion than my own assumption"???

If YOU were God, I would worry about being eternally tortured. But the Bible does not say that God tortures people in hell forever.
Do me a favor and read John 3:16 in your Bible, and post here what it says. "Whosoever believes in him shall not ________ but have _______ _________"
Fill in the Blanks, if you are able.

 

[Mickiel]

+1. We need to see just how badly we are attached to our beliefs and how this creates hell..

I wish somebody would listen to this man , he speaks more truth than the religious here. Hurting humans forever is an addiction to malfunctioned religious myths. Hell is a myth, actually a bunch of myths;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-m-sweeney/hell-is-a-mythactually-a-_b_5367877.html

 

[Mickiel]

Actually, if you have been following this discussion, "I personally don't like it" is NOT the only objection to the false teaching of eternal conscious torture in hell.

Freelight has given many other reasons to believe that God doesn't torture people in hell forever, .

She sure has; I don't know what kind of friends she has or how they relate to her, but they need to tell her to write a book!

 

[Lon]

The only time the message is time stamped is when it happens within you Galatians 1:12, 1Cor 3:16 and that wasn't introduced or invented by Jesus or the apostles.
All those verses you presented pertain to those who look outwardly walking by literal observations of flesh and blood, blinded by their religion and tradition that make void the spiritual intent/pearls hidden in field which is you, Jonah crying out from the belly/theres your hell Lon under the will of the of the beast, Romans seven!

You're the anti christian who is stuck in labels created by men who want to control minds, warped justice with a warped judgement created on paper for you're minds consumption.

You're the anti christian who is stuck in labels created by men who want to control minds, warped justice with a warped judgement created on paper for you're minds consumption.

I like this ...

Well, you are talking to Mikiel and others who are not Christians, don't need Jesus, so making sense to someone. You get esoteric and no earthly good when attempting to communicate with the rest of us. Calling me anti-Christ? Jesus certainly told the Pharisees that they were children of the devil, but I don't really hold you on par with Jesus. Quite an elevated high opinion- place you've given yourself

Transcendence is forbidden knowledge, and for good reason seeing it frees the mind from the worlds mental slave markets that buy and sell Doctrinally drugged Souls through paper stocks and bonds.

Ah, I gotcha now...

Luke 17:20-21, a good foundation to build on with spiritual stones concerning that inner witness/voice that gives liberty the letter can never do 2Cor 3:6, it always demands one bows the knee to some system born from the traditions of men where equality is a meaningless word under their creeds and moral dogma, who are clearly holding hands with world in its quest of governing minds into that prison.

Which was aimed at the unseen kingdom John 4:24 (not of this world) told in allegorical style Galatians 4:24 about Galatians 1:12. 1Cor 3:16, John 1:14, Galatians 3:1, in not among, John 1:9.

It all makes sense: You want God on YOUR terms or not at all! :up: Leave me out of your angst and amateur delusions. 2 Timothy 2:15 You anti-Christians, do you know where you are? What website you post on? :dizzy: :doh:

 

[Lon]

Actually, if you have been following this discussion, "I personally don't like it" is NOT the only objection to the false teaching of eternal conscious torture in hell.

:doh:

Freelight has given many other reasons to believe that God doesn't torture people in hell forever, why did you ignore them and make the false claim that "I personally don't like it" is the only mantra and objection? Because that sounds better than "Freelight has investigated the evidence and has come to a different conclusion than my own assumption"???

She sure has; I don't know what kind of friends she has or how they relate to her, but they need to tell her to write a book!

Sorry, I pretty much have him on ignore. He hates scriptures and holds Urantia junk elevated over them. Completely unacceptable to me. Your lack of discernment is regretful. 2 Timothy 4:3

 

[Mickiel]

I just found out Freelight is a man, I think he is a terrific writer.

 

[Mickiel]

:doh:


Sorry, I pretty much have him on ignore. He hates scriptures and holds Urantia junk elevated over them. Completely unacceptable to me. Your lack of discernment is regretful. 2 Timothy 4:3

You know, sometimes I wonder if salvation was a piece of candy, just how selfish and greedy some holders of the candy would be. Instead of giving and sharing it with some, they would rather keep it to themselves and throw the one who has none in a dog house , because they could not describe what flavor the candy was.

 

[Aimiel]

Evidentally "having no life in you" means "having eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever by God". Is that what the verse means to you?

(I actually believe "ye have no life in you" means that the unrepentant will NOT have eternal life, they will perish just as Jesus said in Luke 13:3, Luke 13:5, and MANY other places in the Bible.

Eternal conscious torment in a Lake of Fire isn't life, by definition. They are perishing. There's no growth. There's no light. There's no relief from the anguish. There's no hope of change. There's no anything but regret and sorrow. If you're right, no harm is done to punish anyone. If I'm right, you'll be sorry for eternity. Always attempt to err on the side of caution. It's called: wisdom. Scriptures described hell. Ignorance won't put out the flames or save anyone from it's torment.

 

[Aimiel]

I just found out Freelight is a man, I think he is a terrific writer.

He's not a man... he's a queer. Also a heretic, much like yourself.

 

[freelight]

Truth be told.....

Truth be told.....

:doh:


Sorry, I pretty much have him on ignore. He hates scriptures and holds Urantia junk elevated over them. Completely unacceptable to me. Your lack of discernment is regretful. 2 Timothy 4:3

I've already written extensively on the subject of ECT, from many different perspectives, links amply supplied. If you'd like to read those and discuss the points therein you're welcome to engage me in a dialogue.

You're assumption that I "hate scripture" is misconstrued, just because I do not hold the Bible to be the only inspired book in the world and draw from a broad spectrum of schools and religious traditions. When addressing specific passages I will research and expound as well as I can regarding translation and 'interpretation'.

Lastly, my exploration and writings on the Urantia Papers represent a varied and speculative discourse on various subjects discussed therein and these commentaries are available for any reader to read in our UB thread here.

My history of threads and posts here shows a wide variety of study of various subjects. See here. I'm an 'eclectic'. Identifying as a 'theosophist' is a more liberal venture in its philosophical spirit and respect for universal truths and principles. A 'theosophist' is a student or lover of 'divine wisdom'.

You are free to ignore all you wish, but as long as I've been here I've held my own and continue to freely express and expound as a free and liberal spirit. I will question any belief or doctrine that is unsound or unreasonable and dissect it from many dimensions. Don't forget, all opinions, beliefs, assumptions, points of view are subject to change.

 

[patrick jane]

I just found out Freelight is a man, I think he is a terrific writer.

He is good with words and knowledgeable with theology. Be wary of the Urantia papers/book, it's occult material

 

[freelight]

He's not a man... he's a queer. Also a heretic, much like yourself.

Your post has been reported.

 

[Lon]

You know, sometimes I wonder if salvation was a piece of candy, just how selfish and greedy some holders of the candy would be. Instead of giving and sharing it with some, they would rather keep it to themselves and throw the one who has none in a dog house , because they could not describe what flavor the candy was.

Such is the pick'n'choose sentimentality that doesn't deal with factuals.
It doesn't matter what I believe, it matters what is true. "Lets all take a vote" might seem like a nice pipedream but God is not a democracy nor should 'socialism' guide one's theology.

Mickiel: "Well He should be!"

Doesn't matter what you 'think' or 'feel.' What matters again, is what is and what isn't. God should not be confused with your politics or whatever sociological phenomena are influencing it. "Voting" doesn't cut it. "Whatever I feel is right" doesn't cut it. You can 'wish with all your might, wish upon a star' all you like, doesn't do a blessed thing. You can't 'vote' for a new God. A few of you new-age pseudo-spiritual want-it-to-be's doesn't make anything true. A small group of back-patters does not make truth, though you guys sure like to think it does. Again, the scripture says it:


2Ti 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:
2Ti 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2Ti 4:5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Here is the heart of the matter for me: Give me Jesus and whatever He says is true. It doesn't matter if it is exclusive or not, 'fair' to you or not, but rather that it is true, and comes from Him. Whatever that is, I want it and Him. End of story, for me.

I can wish my car doesn't have a cracked block. Whatever is the actual case is what I want to deal with. It doesn't matter if you think all engine blocks should never be cracked, it doesn't make it so nor help me with what I'm dealing with. Again: Give me Jesus and whatever He says is so. I will learn to deal with what is a fact rather than try and fruitlessly vainly emote it away. That's never going to happen. A good cry session may make you feel better when your block is cracked. I'm either looking for it to be welded or replaced.

Similarly, Jesus says that few ever find the narrow road but following Him seems to be the key to that door. "My sheep hear my voice and follow me."

 

[Mickiel]

Again: Give me Jesus and whatever He says is so. I will learn to deal with what is a fact rather than try and fruitlessly vainly emote it away. That's never going to happen. A good cry session may make you feel better when your block is cracked. I'm either looking for it to be welded or replaced.

Similarly, Jesus says that few ever find the narrow road but following Him seems to be the key to that door. "My sheep hear my voice and follow me."

Again Jesus in Matt.23:13-15, "But woe to you Pharisee and scribes, hypocrites; for you SHUT OFF the Kingdom from men!
And you make them, twice the child of hell than you are." Here Jesus is talking to believers, they were teaching doctrines of limited atonement, teaching ways that people could go to hell. And Jesus was angry with this and basically called them hell mongers.

 

[Mickiel]

WE as believers, cannot take any credit for our belief, as if it was yourself that decided to believe in God, conversely we cannot decide for God when HE decides to work in an unbeliever. Many believers get too much of a taste of righteousness, when they get so saved, that they get numb toward the unbelievers who God has not yet touched. In Phil.2:13, " For it IS God which work in you both the WILL and TO DO of his good pleasure!"

It is God who manipulates the humans will, or consciousness, to believe in him and live his way; see things his way. We can't manipulate a person that God has not yet FIRST entered. You can evangelize all you want to, but if God has that person closed, you can't open them. Eccl. 7:13, " Consider the work of God: for who can make straight, that which HE has made crooked?"

Again notice Jesus, the sensation of salvation, in John 6:44, "NO MAN CAN COME TO ME, except the Father who sent me DRAW him!" See we don't respect that order of things, we think an unbeliever has refused God, and completely ignore his power to convert the human consciousness, like he converted yours.

Why are you condemning people; what's wrong with you?

If God saved us, he can save a bull headed human whenever he wants. This free will doctrine has soured how believers look at unbelievers, the calling of God is a mind changing conscious evolution; the human will cannot stop it! Look at any conversion recorded in the bible. Show me where God ever asked a human to choose him when he confronted them. Look at Paul, he was not given a choice; God just TOLD him what to do.

Read the word; please-- read that word!

 

[Caino]

I just found out Freelight is a man, I think he is a terrific writer.

Yes, and a good man, a nice person, intelligent, patient and many other qualities. By their fruits yea will know them, and by his qualities we can see Freelight knows the spirit whereas these other religious people wreak of the right wingers who killed Jesus! It is obvious that had many of the indoctrinated robots on TOL been Jews during the times of Christ, they would have also rejected his Freelight-like message. They are closed minded, hard hearted people. They don't have a message that anyone would want.

 

[Mickiel]

Yes, and a good man, a nice person, intelligent, patient and many other qualities. By their fruits yea will know them, and by his qualities we can see Freelight knows the spirit whereas these other religious people wreak of the right wingers who killed Jesus! It is obvious that had many of the indoctrinated robots on TOL been Jews during the times of Christ, they would have also rejected his Freelight-like message. They are closed minded, hard hearted people. They don't have a message that anyone would want.

A railing accusation..... which I agree with!

 

[serpentdove]

"...Luke 19:10, " For the Son of Man is come to seek and save that which was lost."

"Lk 19:10 — “ … the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Jesus came to earth, not merely to provide us with an example of godly living, but to make it possible for us to enjoy an intimate relationship with God. He did for us what we could never do on our own." Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (Lk 19:10). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.

 

[serpentdove]

In Isaiah 6:3, " Holy, Holy , Holy is the Lord of Hosts."

Not love, love, love :zman: A creature created just to proclaim that (Is 6:2).

"Is 6:3...Holy, holy, holy. The primary thrust of the 3-fold repetition of God’s holiness (called the trihagion) is to emphasize God’s separateness from and independence of His fallen creation, though it implies secondarily that God is 3 Persons. See Rev. 4:8, where the 4 living creatures utter the trihagion. full of His glory. The earth is the worldwide display of His immeasurable glory, perfections, and attributes as seen in creation (see Rom. 1:20). Fallen man has nevertheless refused to glorify Him as God (Rom. 1:23)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 963). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.