Why We Are Justified by Faith Alone

[turbosixx]

The fact that you ignore is that Paul writes that the righteousness of God comes to all those who believe:

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe" (Ro.3:21-22).​

And here Paul makes it plain that this righteousness which is of God is his through "faith":

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).​

I do not ignore Paul. I understand in both verses, he is talking about the law of Moses which cannot save. That's his point, believe in Jesus and do not trust in the law. First they have to believe. There's no going further if one doesn't believe.

See, in chapter 8 he is still talking about the law and how it couldn't save.
Rom. 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son

In Philippians, Paul is talking about his former life as a Jew and follower of the law.
3:4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

That's why he says not from the law:
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law,

What is the meaning of the Greek word translated "believe"? Since you think you know the meaning of that word and I do not then please quote that meaning from any Greek expert.

Thanks!

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

It's a verb which means action.

Let's look at bible examples.
1 Cor. 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

Could you please explain what he means by believed "in vain"?

 

[Ben Masada]

Why We Are Justified by Faith Alone?

We aren't. Faith without the the works of the Law is akin to a body without the breath of life. (James 2:26) Dead, if you know what James meant. If we were justified by faith, Jesus would not have warned us all to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

 

[Jerry Shugart]

We aren't. Faith without the the works of the Law is akin to a body without the breath of life. (James 2:26) Dead, if you know what James meant. If we were justified by faith, Jesus would not have warned us all to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

Of course you refuse to believe your own Scriptures in regard to Abraham:

"And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness" (Gen.15:6).​

You claim to believe the Scriptures from the OT but you prove over and over that you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

And if you think James is correct then consider what he says about the way that a person is born of God:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jms.1:18).​

 

[beloved57]

The fact that you ignore is that Paul writes that the righteousness of God comes to all those who believe:

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe" (Ro.3:21-22).​

And here Paul makes it plain that this righteousness which is of God is his through "faith":

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).​

What is the meaning of the Greek word translated "believe"? Since you think you know the meaning of that word and I do not then please quote that meaning from any Greek expert.

Thanks!

Those Christ died for are made/declared righteous by His obedience, the Obedience of one Rom 5:19! They didn't believe a thing!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

It's a verb which means action.

A verb "expresses an act, occurance, or mode of being" (Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary). And "to believe" is not an action but instead an occurance, something that takes place.

By the definition which you yourself gave we can see that the Greek word translated "believe" means "to believe, entrust." That rules out the idea that when the Greek word translated "believe" is used that submitting to the rite of water baptism is included.

Now let us look at the answer Paul and those with him gave to the question of what a person must do to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Paul stated in no uncertain terms that in order to be saved a person must believe. Either that is true or it is not. There is no middle ground.

According to your view Paul was in error because you think that no one is saved by believing because no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water.

Also, you do not believe what Paul wrote here:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

According to your ideas the gospel is not the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes because no one is saved when they believe the gospel. According to your view no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water.

Why can't you see the errors of your theology?

 

[Ben Masada]

Of course you refuse to believe your own Scriptures in regard to Abraham:
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness" (Gen.15:6).

You claim to believe the Scriptures from the OT but you prove over and over that you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

And if you think James is correct then consider what he says about the way that a person is born of God:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jms.1:18).

Sorry Jerry, but you are totally wrong. If after believing the Lord, Abraham had decided not to obey His command, he would never be justified; it means that he was justified for obeying God's command. So, James was right.

 

[beloved57]

Sorry Jerry, but you are totally wrong. If after believing the Lord, Abraham had decided not to obey His command, he would never be justified; it means that he was justified for obeying God's command. So, James was right.

Would he be justified if he worshipped a golden calf?

 

[Robert Pate]

Would he be justified if he worshipped a golden calf?

Your golden calf is Calvinism.

 

[beloved57]

Your golden calf is Calvinism.

Yours is mans will. Your god is your own will.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The word "For" in Scripture Overlooked at One's Peril

The word "For" in Scripture Overlooked at One's Peril

You have the same disease as B57, its called spiritual blindness.

You think that something is wrong with the bible. Hebrews 2:11 does not change Hebrews 2:9.

Persons that just wave off clear explanations of what Scripture teaches will always end up where you have, Robert. The "For" in Hebrews 2:11 is key in proper exegesis of the whole pericope. The argument made is not assailable by your odd universalistic views. You and Mr. Shugart will have to attempt to seek out other proof texts for your erroneous views. This one stands against you.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Persons that just wave off clear explanations of what Scripture teaches will always end up where you have, Robert. The "For" in Hebrews 2:11 is key in proper exegesis of the whole pericope. The argument made is not assailable by your odd universalistic views. You and Mr. Shugart will have to attempt to seek out other proof texts for your erroneous views. This one stands against you.

AMR

AMR

HOGWASH!

Your attempt to change or devalue Hebrews 2:9 with Hebrews 2:11 is a typical Calvinist maneuver.

"If we don't like what it says, lets change it." Just like the word "World." you just can't believe that it means everyone, so lets change it to mean some certain persons.

You need to change your name from Mr Religion to Mr Anti-Christ.

 

[turbosixx]

A verb "expresses an act, occurance, or mode of being" (Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary). And "to believe" is not an action but instead an occurance, something that takes place.

By the definition which you yourself gave we can see that the Greek word translated "believe" means "to believe, entrust." That rules out the idea that when the Greek word translated "believe" is used that submitting to the rite of water baptism is included.

Now let us look at the answer Paul and those with him gave to the question of what a person must do to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Paul stated in no uncertain terms that in order to be saved a person must believe. Either that is true or it is not. There is no middle ground.

According to your view Paul was in error because you think that no one is saved by believing because no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water.

Also, you do not believe what Paul wrote here:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

According to your ideas the gospel is not the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes because no one is saved when they believe the gospel. According to your view no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water.

Why can't you see the errors of your theology?

Is that occurrence a one time thing?

Please explain what Paul means by believed "in vain"
1 Cor. 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Is that occurrence a one time thing?

One's initial experience of believing is a one time thing but once a person believes the truth will be with them for ever

"The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever" (2 Jn.1-2).​

Please explain what Paul means by believed "in vain"
1 Cor. 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

Just a mental assent to the truth of the gospel can result in a person believing in vain. That is why Paul speaks of believing in one's heart (Ro.10:9).

 

[Ben Masada]

Your golden calf is Calvinism.

Thanks for you help Robert! That thing was getting on my nerves already!

 

[Ben Masada]

delete

 

[turbosixx]

One's initial experience of believing is a one time thing but once a person believes the truth will be with them for ever

"The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever" (2 Jn.1-2).​

This looks like mental understanding to me, which is what it takes in the first place to believe.

Just a mental assent to the truth of the gospel can result in a person believing in vain. That is why Paul speaks of believing in one's heart (Ro.10:9).

Could you please explain how one is different than the other?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Could you please explain how one is different than the other?

The following verse describes the faith of those who believe in their hearts:

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.12:5).​

The following is said about those who believe in their hearts:

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God" (1 Cor.2:12).​

The following verse describes those whose faith is limited to a mental assent:

"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).​

These people were miracle made believers and that kind of faith saves no one.

Now back to what I said earlier:

A verb "expresses an act, occurance, or mode of being" (Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary). And "to believe" is not an action but instead an occurance, something that takes place.

By the definition which you yourself gave we can see that the Greek word translated "believe" means "to believe, entrust." That rules out the idea that when the Greek word translated "believe" is used that submitting to the rite of water baptism is included.

Now let us look at the answer Paul and those with him gave to the question of what a person must do to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Paul stated in no uncertain terms that in order to be saved a person must believe. Either that is true or it is not. There is no middle ground.

According to your view Paul was in error because you think that no one is saved by believing because no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water.

Also, you do not believe what Paul wrote here:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

According to your ideas the gospel is not the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes because no one is saved when they believe the gospel. According to your view no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water.

Why can't you see the errors of your theology?

 

[beloved57]

The following verse describes the faith of those who believe in their hearts:

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.12:5).​

The following is said about those who believe in their hearts:

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God" (1 Cor.2:12).

The following verse describes those whose faith is limited to a mental assent:

"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).​

These people were miracle made believers and that kind of faith saves no one.

Now back to what I said earlier:

A verb "expresses an act, occurance, or mode of being" (Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary). And "to believe" is not an action but instead an occurance, something that takes place.

By the definition which you yourself gave we can see that the Greek word translated "believe" means "to believe, entrust." That rules out the idea that when the Greek word translated "believe" is used that submitting to the rite of water baptism is included.

Now let us look at the answer Paul and those with him gave to the question of what a person must do to be saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Paul stated in no uncertain terms that in order to be saved a person must believe. Either that is true or it is not. There is no middle ground.

According to your view Paul was in error because you think that no one is saved by believing because no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water.

Also, you do not believe what Paul wrote here:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

According to your ideas the gospel is not the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes because no one is saved when they believe the gospel. According to your view no one is saved until they believe and then are baptized with water.

Why can't you see the errors of your theology?

Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 so they can't believe, they don't have the Spirit. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 so they can't believe, they don't have the Spirit. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

Does your mommie know that you are playing with her computer?

 

[patrick jane]

Does your mommie know that you are playing with her computer?

:rotfl: