Why the left is so dishonest

G

Gary K

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The following quote comes from Max Eastman's book, Reflections on the Failure of Socialism. He devotes an entire chapter to the dishonesty inherent in Marx's Socialism. He titled the chapter The Religion of Immoralism and he explained in that chapter that marxism/socialism is a religion. A religion dedicated to destroying all morality. And that marxism was deliberatly designed to be that way by Marx.

So, if you think can ever get a truly honest response out of a socialist activist you're going to be disappointed every time.

Marx was so sure that the world was going to be redeemed
by its own dialectic evolution that he would not permit his
disciples to invoke the guidance of moral ideals. He really
meant it when he said the workers have "no ideal to realize,"
they have only to participate in the contemporary struggle.
He expelled people from his 'Communist party for mention-
ing programmatically such things as "love," "justice," "hu-
manity," even "morality" itself. "Soulful ravings," "sloppy
sentimentality," he called such expressions, and purged the
astonished authors as though they had committed the most
dastardly crimes. page 85
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This is the foundation of such ideas as "social justice", It is meant to destroy justice itself by promoting the idea that just is for groups of people, not individuals. There can be no 'group" justice without immediately creating individual injustice. Therefore the very concept of "social justice" is immoral.
 
eider

eider

Well-known member
ffreeloader said:
The following quote comes from Max Eastman's book, Reflections on the Failure of Socialism. He devotes an entire chapter to the dishonesty inherent in Marx's Socialism. He titled the chapter The Religion of Immoralism and he explained in that chapter that marxism/socialism is a religion. A religion dedicated to destroying all morality. And that marxism was deliberatly designed to be that way by Marx.

So, if you think can ever get a truly honest response out of a socialist activist you're going to be disappointed every time.




This is the foundation of such ideas as "social justice", It is meant to destroy justice itself by promoting the idea that just is for groups of people, not individuals. There can be no 'group" justice without immediately creating individual injustice. Therefore the very concept of "social justice" is immoral.
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Ah yes.... Max Eastman a prominent atheist and independent .....
You choose your authors so well.
 
G

Gary K

New member
Banned
eider said:
Ah yes.... Max Eastman a prominent atheist and independent .....
You choose your authors so well.
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Ah, yes. Max Eastman was a dedicated socialist for decades. He was invited to the USSR during the Bolshevik revolution by none other than Lenin himself and was given full access to all revolutionary records and a train pass that took him all over the entire nation by Lenin. He was one of the first to report that the USSR was socialist. A fact denied by socialists on this site.

So, yeah. I take choose my authors well. Twenty years after his trip to the nascent USSR he came out of the socialist movement and began exposing it. He speaks of that experience and how and why it took him so long to actually begin to think about what he was accepting as truth. He acknowledges that the indoctrination goes very deep.

He was also the person chosen to be the first editor-in-chief of "The Masses" socialist rag where he wrote most of the articles. That rag is still in existence today. He was a very consequential socialist in the US in the first half of the 1900s. He absolutely knew what he was talking about when speaking to socialism and it's ills.

I find it very interesting that someone who claims to not be a socialist and has said he wants nothing to do with God finds the fact that Eastman was an atheist and, gasp, and independent, as a way to criticize him. Oh, the irony. Do you realize how deep it is? And to criticize me for reading and quoting him. Am I to think I'm going to find lots of dedicated Biblical Christians inside socialist leadership rather than atheists? I have told you guys repeatedly that I read widely. And now you're "shocked" that I told you the truth. I have quoted Eastman repeatedly during the time I have been posting on this site.

I understand why you want to criticize him. I find it humorous the way you choose to criticize him. You seem to think it odd that someone who does a lot of research on socialism would actually read socialist authors. Hey, I've even read Marx, Hitler, HG Wells, Bernard Shaw, Edward R. Pease, and a bunch of other socialist authors. Where do you think I find so much to criticize about socialism? I go right to the horse's mouth, so to speak.
 
eider

eider

Well-known member
ffreeloader said:
Ah, yes. Max Eastman was a dedicated socialist for decades. He was invited to the USSR during the Bolshevik revolution by none other than Lenin himself and was given full access to all revolutionary records and a train pass that took him all over the entire nation by Lenin. He was one of the first to report that the USSR was socialist. A fact denied by socialists on this site.

So, yeah. I take choose my authors well. Twenty years after his trip to the nascent USSR he came out of the socialist movement and began exposing it. He speaks of that experience and how and why it took him so long to actually begin to think about what he was accepting as truth. He acknowledges that the indoctrination goes very deep.

He was also the person chosen to be the first editor-in-chief of "The Masses" socialist rag where he wrote most of the articles. That rag is still in existence today. He was a very consequential socialist in the US in the first half of the 1900s. He absolutely knew what he was talking about when speaking to socialism and it's ills.

I find it very interesting that someone who claims to not be a socialist and has said he wants nothing to do with God finds the fact that Eastman was an atheist and, gasp, and independent, as a way to criticize him. Oh, the irony. Do you realize how deep it is? And to criticize me for reading and quoting him. Am I to think I'm going to find lots of dedicated Biblical Christians inside socialist leadership rather than atheists? I have told you guys repeatedly that I read widely. And now you're "shocked" that I told you the truth. I have quoted Eastman repeatedly during the time I have been posting on this site.

I understand why you want to criticize him. I find it humorous the way you choose to criticize him. You seem to think it odd that someone who does a lot of research on socialism would actually read socialist authors. Hey, I've even read Marx, Hitler, HG Wells, Bernard Shaw, Edward R. Pease, and a bunch of other socialist authors. Where do you think I find so much to criticize about socialism? I go right to the horse's mouth, so to speak.
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Stop you there.
When you claim that I want nothing to do with God you have lied.
I am a Deist.
When you claim that I have criticised Eastman you have lied.
I quite respect him. I was simply acknowledging that fact that you will jump on any person's back for a free ride when it suits you.
You chose your name well, mate. ffreeloader....... jump on any bandwagon when it suits, and for nothing.
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
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G

Gary K

New member
Banned
eider said:
Stop you there.
When you claim that I want nothing to do with God you have lied.
I am a Deist.
When you claim that I have criticised Eastman you have lied.
I quite respect him. I was simply acknowledging that fact that you will jump on any person's back for a free ride when it suits you.
You chose your name well, mate. ffreeloader....... jump on any bandwagon when it suits, and for nothing.
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A deist is not a follower of the God of the Bible. Therefore you want nothing to do with God as He actually is.
 
G

Gary K

New member
Banned
eider said:
Stop you there.
When you claim that I want nothing to do with God you have lied.
I am a Deist.
When you claim that I have criticised Eastman you have lied.
I quite respect him. I was simply acknowledging that fact that you will jump on any person's back for a free ride when it suits you.
You chose your name well, mate. ffreeloader....... jump on any bandwagon when it suits, and for nothing.
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Sure. I will quote anyone who speaks the truth. If you call that freeloading, well, you're quite the hypocrite for everyone does that including you. Everyone chooses who they believe and who they don't believe. We all have sources that we look at to support our beliefs. If you have none you're quite an anomaly in humanity. What you're actually claiming for yourself is that no one has ever taught you anything. That you have no sources that you think are authoritative. I'm far from being that arrogant.
 
G

Gary K

New member
Banned
eider said:
So you follow the Abrahamic God of the Jews, Christians, Muslims and Bahais.
That's your choice
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You just cannot help yourself, apparently. The God of the Bible is not the god of Muslims and Bahais. Not even close.

Of course I follow the Abrahamic God of the Jews. Am I supposed to be ashamed of that? I am not. Jesus said the following:

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
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Here was Jesus' context.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
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eider

eider

Well-known member
ffreeloader said:
You just cannot help yourself, apparently. The God of the Bible is not the god of Muslims and Bahais. Not even close.

Of course I follow the Abrahamic God of the Jews. Am I supposed to be ashamed of that? I am not. Jesus said the following:

Here was Jesus' context.
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Sorry, but Muhammad and Bahauallah both claimed to be of the Abrahamic God.
I can only tell you what I know.
 
eider

eider

Well-known member
ffreeloader said:
And your's isn't? Of course it is. You pick and choose quite carefully what you choose to believe.
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So you do admit to cherry picking the bits that you think are true.
But that's obvious.

And you quote atheists when it suits you. It's all so devious. No integrity.
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Rusha said:
In response to the ridiculously trolling OP ... they are not. They real question is why do right-wing extremists rely on such lazy and dishonest generalizations?
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Well, possibly because it's a way of trying to distance themselves away from what's understandably uncomfortable in their own corner. That's why we see ridiculous rubbish being touted as to how the Nazis were somehow "left wing" and the like. It doesn't hold up under scrutiny of course. Neither the rational on either side of the political spectrum would regard the Nazis as being remotely "liberal", but then extremism often negates rationality. It's far easier just to blithely brush an opposing view into a compartmentalized little box and hang the truth on the score. So, anyone on the left is a "Marxist" or "socialist" by default.
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Arthur Brain said:
Well, possibly because it's a way of trying to distance themselves away from what's understandably uncomfortable in their own corner.
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That's a large part of it right there. Added to that, a great number of right-wing extremists believe they have God on their side, so what follows quite naturally and logically in their minds is that God's side should have all the power. Little things like racism, white supremacism, making a mockery of due Constitutional process and fomenting insurrection are in their minds simply means to a theocratic endgame so whatever it takes. Added to that, their right-wing authoritarian personalities make them especially susceptible to conspiratorial thinking, so QAnon! Stop the Steal! The next conspiracy might be far worse than what the youtube vortex is serving up now, and the deluded MAGA are primed to hear exactly what they're looking to hear.
 
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