Why No One Has Been Predestinated

[Robert Pate]

The words "predestinate or predestinated" appear in the New Testament only 4 times. They are completely absent in the Old Testament. The words "faith" and "believe" appears in the Bible hundreds of times. The word "whosoever" meaning all, anyone, everyone appears in the Bible over 200 times.

The words predestinate or predestinated are not associated with anyones salvation. The apostles were predestinated by Jesus Christ to preach the Gospel. There is no predestination without a purpose. Now, all Christians are called to preach the Gospel.

Predestinate, To be conformed to the image of his Son, Romans 8:29.
Predestinate, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called, Romans 8:30.
Predestinated, Unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:5.
Predestinated, According to the purpose of him who works all things according to his will, Ephesians 1:11.

There is no scripture any where in the Bible that says anyone has been predestinated to heaven or to hell, or predestinated to salvation. Why is this? The answer is very simple, it is a false doctrine.

The Calvinist doctrine of predestination is in conflict with the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ.

In the Gospel God reconciles us and the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ.

"All things are of God , who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and has given unto us the ministry of reconciliation" (preaching of the Gospel) 2 Corinthians 5:18.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto to them and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (which is the Gospel) 2 Corinthians 5:19.

No where in the Bible are we encouraged to preach or teach that we have been predestinated. Jesus did not say "Go into all of the world and preach predestination". What he did say was, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature" Mark 16:15. It is the preaching of the Gospel that convicts people of their sins and brings them to Christ.

On the day of Pentecost 8,000 Jews heard and believed Peter's Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. Some of those Jews had participated in the crucifixion of Christ, Acts 2:36. There is no way that those Jews had been predestinated to salvation. Instead they were convicted by the Holy Spirit of the terrible thing that they had done and repented and accepted Christ as their savior.

Paul and some of the other apostles spent over 20 years of their lives and traveled over 10,000 miles on three missionary journeys preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They were not taking a poll to see who had been predestinated. They were doing what Jesus commanded them to do, they were preaching the Gospel.

 

[AgainstAll]

Some vessels were created for destruction, others for glory.
The vessels of destruction can choose glory via following the Messiah, and thereby no longer receive destruction. The vessels of glory can neglect the Messiahs word and therefore suffer destruction.
Ezekiel 18:20-24 remains true.


The ever existing Father is a Spirit that fills both heaven and earth; John 4:24 Jeremiah 23:24

The Father is the creator of all existence, spiritual and physical, invisible and visible;
Colossians 1:15-17

The Messiah is the pre-planned physical manifestation of the ever existing Father. 1 Timothy 3:16
Isaiah 43:11 Genesis 22:8 Exodus 33:17 Exodus 34:9 Numbers 11:28-29 Isaiah 53:10

The Father thought out, and then created everything in such a way so that He could both relate to His
creation and demonstrate His love for His the creation, physically, as the Messiah.

The Father has given each and every creature free will, and therefore allowed for sin and death.
To defeat sin and death, He subjected His own self to mortality, weakness, pain, fear and death
and yet while subject to those things He did not sin, and also died in the manner that He chose,
as such, up from the grave He arose with a full and final victory over death itself
and any argument for death.

Therefore, thou shalt rise in honor of the grey headed man, for when we see the Messiah we will be looking at the pre-planned physical manifestation of the Father. Time is already complete.
In this manner all who will(from our perspective) follow the Messiah are there already with the Messiah outside of what we can comprehend as time.

 

[theophilus]

Hi Robert,

I know a number of people who were predestined to salvation. Maybe your thread title should have been "Why I (Robert Pate) Have Not Been Predestinated."

That would have been more appropriate.

And you forgot two:

Acts 4:28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

Romans 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

1 Corinthians 2:7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Ephesians 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,



And if you were, indeed, walking in Love you wouldn't be railing against other members of the Body of Christ.

You're going to have to answer for that.

Just saying.

 

[fishrovmen]

Hi Robert,

I know a number of people who were predestined to salvation. Maybe your thread title should have been "Why I (Robert Pate) Have Not Been Predestinated."

That would have been more appropriate.

And you forgot two:

Acts 4:28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

Romans 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

1 Corinthians 2:7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Ephesians 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,



And if you were, indeed, walking in Love you wouldn't be railing against other members of the Body of Christ.

You're going to have to answer for that.

Just saying.

Robert has been corrected on this countless times and knowingly bears false witness without shame. He should be very concerned about what the Lord has to say about liars, unless of course, he doesn't really believe what is written. I just wonder what his excuse will be when he is confronted with his falsehood and the inconsistency of his own doctrines? It doesn't seem to bother him that his own teachings are unbiblical.

 

[theophilus]

Robert has been corrected on this countless times and knowingly bears false witness without shame. He should be very concerned about what the Lord has to say about liars, unless of course, he doesn't really believe what is written. I just wonder what his excuse will be when he is confronted with his falsehood and the inconsistency of his own doctrines? It doesn't seem to bother him that his own teachings are unbiblical.

I just can't figure why he keeps railing against the same things.

:idunno:

Methinks it's hard for him to kick against the goads.

 

[Robert Pate]

Hi Robert,

I know a number of people who were predestined to salvation. Maybe your thread title should have been "Why I (Robert Pate) Have Not Been Predestinated."

That would have been more appropriate.

And you forgot two:

Acts 4:28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

Romans 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

1 Corinthians 2:7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Ephesians 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,



And if you were, indeed, walking in Love you wouldn't be railing against other members of the Body of Christ.

You're going to have to answer for that.

Just saying.

I don't consider anyone that is trying to be saved by predestination to be a Christian.

If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask him to save you, Romans 10:13.

"In whom you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that YOU BELIEVED, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

 

[theophilus]

I don't consider anyone that is trying to be saved by predestination to be a Christian.

People aren't saved by predestination. They are predestined to salvation by the God Who chose them.

Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask him to save you, Romans 10:13.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

"In whom you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that YOU BELIEVED, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

Let's have all of it Robert:

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

What is it you have believed Robert?

 

[Robert Pate]

People aren't saved by predestination. They are predestined to salvation by the God Who chose them.

Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.



John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.



Let's have all of it Robert:

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

What is it you have believed Robert?

Salvation has been provided by Jesus Christ for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

No one needs to be predestinated, simply because God has ALREADY reconciled the whole world into himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You make God to be an unjust, unmerciful tyrant when you embrace Calvinism. If that is what you believe God is like you will never see heaven.

 

[serpentdove]

There is no scripture any where in the Bible that says anyone has been predestinated to heaven or to hell, or predestinated to salvation. Why is this? The answer is very simple, it is a false doctrine.

The Calvinist doctrine of predestination is in conflict with the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ.

Of course. Every person gets a choice to overcome the flesh :listen: or not (Ro 5:8, 8:3, 1 Jn 2:13, 14). :banana:

 

[Robert Pate]

Of course. Every person gets a choice to overcome the flesh :listen: or not (Ro 5:8, 8:3). :banana:

We are not a bunch of dumb mindless robots that can't hear, and believe the Gospel.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

 

[theophilus]

Salvation has been provided by Jesus Christ for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

He died for people in Hell, too? What did that accomplish? Why are they still in Hell?

No one needs to be predestinated, simply because God has ALREADY reconciled the whole world into himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Then why are there people in Hell? Who wants to be reconciled to a God who sent His Son to die for them and sends them to Hell anyway?

You make God to be an unjust, unmerciful tyrant when you embrace Calvinism. If that is what you believe God is like you will never see heaven.

You make God to be a cosmic liar because you believe all those people in Hell have been provided a salvation by Jesus Christ...you said "everyone." What a let-down for them.

I don't want to believe in your God who reconciles "the whole world" to Himself then sends them to Hell.

What's up with that Robert?

 

[Robert Pate]

He died for people in Hell, too? What did that accomplish? Why are they still in Hell?



Then why are there people in Hell? Who wants to be reconciled to a God who sent His Son to die for them and sends them to Hell anyway?



You make God to be a cosmic liar because you believe all those people in Hell have been provided a salvation by Jesus Christ...you said "everyone." What a let-down for them.

I don't want to believe in your God who reconciles "the whole world" to Himself then sends them to Hell.

What's up with that Robert?

The reason that people are going to hell is because they rejected God's great free offer of salvation that was provided for them by Jesus Christ. Hebrews 2:9.

God provides reconciliation for everyone, THE WHOLE WORLD. But if you don't receive the offer of reconciliation, then you have sentenced yourself to hell.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

 

[serpentdove]

We are not a bunch of dumb mindless robots that can't hear, and believe the Gospel.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Right. Hear it. Believe it. Live.

Hear it. Reject it. Die the second death.

This isn't brain surgery. :juggle: Ro 8:14

 

[serpentdove]

Some vessels were created for destruction, others for glory.

That's right. He is recuing his children. If one wants to be rescued, he'll be rescued. :idunno:

It's not rocket science (Ro 8:15). :juggle:

 

[serpentdove]

...He should be very concerned about what the Lord has to say about liars...

Liars don't go to heaven (Prov. 19:5, Rev. 21:8, 27). If one is a liar, he is of his father, the devil (Jn 8:4).

 

[theophilus]

The reason that people are going to hell is because they rejected God's great free offer of salvation that was provided for them by Jesus Christ. Hebrews 2:9.

But you just said He died for EVERYONE. If He tasted death for EVERYONE why are they still being punished?

God provides reconciliation for everyone, THE WHOLE WORLD. But if you don't receive the offer of reconciliation, then you have sentenced yourself to hell.

Please find, in scripture, where I have to receive this offer of reconciliation.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

How do you know you're saved?

 

[serpentdove]

...God provides reconciliation for everyone, THE WHOLE WORLD. But if you don't receive the offer of reconciliation, then you have sentenced yourself to hell.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Right. God doesn't send one to hell. He sends himself there. :burnlib:

"The gates of hell are locked from the inside." ~ C.S. Lewis

 

[George Affleck]

Some vessels were created for destruction, others for glory.
The vessels of destruction can choose glory via following the Messiah, and thereby no longer receive destruction. The vessels of glory can neglect the Messiahs word and therefore suffer destruction.
Ezekiel 18:20-24 remains true.


The ever existing Father is a Spirit that fills both heaven and earth; John 4:24 Jeremiah 23:24

The Father is the creator of all existence, spiritual and physical, invisible and visible;
Colossians 1:15-17

The Messiah is the pre-planned physical manifestation of the ever existing Father. 1 Timothy 3:16
Isaiah 43:11 Genesis 22:8 Exodus 33:17 Exodus 34:9 Numbers 11:28-29 Isaiah 53:10

The Father thought out, and then created everything in such a way so that He could both relate to His
creation and demonstrate His love for His the creation, physically, as the Messiah.

The Father has given each and every creature free will, and therefore allowed for sin and death.
To defeat sin and death, He subjected His own self to mortality, weakness, pain, fear and death
and yet while subject to those things He did not sin, and also died in the manner that He chose,
as such, up from the grave He arose with a full and final victory over death itself
and any argument for death.

Therefore, thou shalt rise in honor of the grey headed man, for when we see the Messiah we will be looking at the pre-planned physical manifestation of the Father. Time is already complete.
In this manner all who will(from our perspective) follow the Messiah are there already with the Messiah outside of what we can comprehend as time.

This reminds me for all the world of this verse

And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)

I can't remember the last time time I saw a post so peppered with truth and falsehood together.

 

[Robert Pate]

Some vessels were created for destruction, others for glory.
The vessels of destruction can choose glory via following the Messiah, and thereby no longer receive destruction. The vessels of glory can neglect the Messiahs word and therefore suffer destruction.
Ezekiel 18:20-24 remains true.


The ever existing Father is a Spirit that fills both heaven and earth; John 4:24 Jeremiah 23:24

The Father is the creator of all existence, spiritual and physical, invisible and visible;
Colossians 1:15-17

The Messiah is the pre-planned physical manifestation of the ever existing Father. 1 Timothy 3:16
Isaiah 43:11 Genesis 22:8 Exodus 33:17 Exodus 34:9 Numbers 11:28-29 Isaiah 53:10

The Father thought out, and then created everything in such a way so that He could both relate to His
creation and demonstrate His love for His the creation, physically, as the Messiah.

The Father has given each and every creature free will, and therefore allowed for sin and death.
To defeat sin and death, He subjected His own self to mortality, weakness, pain, fear and death
and yet while subject to those things He did not sin, and also died in the manner that He chose,
as such, up from the grave He arose with a full and final victory over death itself
and any argument for death.

Therefore, thou shalt rise in honor of the grey headed man, for when we see the Messiah we will be looking at the pre-planned physical manifestation of the Father. Time is already complete.
In this manner all who will(from our perspective) follow the Messiah are there already with the Messiah outside of what we can comprehend as time.

God does not create people for destruction. To believe that is to believe that God is unjust. You will not be saved if you believe that God is unjust.

 

[patrick jane]

He died for people in Hell, too? What did that accomplish? Why are they still in Hell?



Then why are there people in Hell? Who wants to be reconciled to a God who sent His Son to die for them and sends them to Hell anyway?



You make God to be a cosmic liar because you believe all those people in Hell have been provided a salvation by Jesus Christ...you said "everyone." What a let-down for them.

I don't want to believe in your God who reconciles "the whole world" to Himself then sends them to Hell.

What's up with that Robert?

So you're calvinist ?