Why I Don't Believe in Calvinism or Predestination

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Robert Pate said:
Calvinism is in direct conflict with the Bible the Gospel and justification by faith.

There are just to many scriptures that I would have to reject to become a Calvinist. Here are some of them.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

I believe that John was closer to Jesus than some of the other apostles and that John would not twist the words of Jesus in order to deceive us. And then Paul confirms what John says when he wrote,

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

When it comes to the Gospel and justification by faith there is no conflict in the scriptures. It is only when we start to deny that Jesus is the savior of the world that the trouble starts. You cannot be a Calvinist and believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world.

Are we going to believe John or are we going to believe Calvinism? John wrote, "And he is a propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2.

And then John wrote again, "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the savior of the world" 1 John 4:14.

If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, then there is no hope for anyone. If Jesus did not defeat sin, death and the devil, then all is lost. The reason that Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of God is because Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil.

The scripture confirms this, "And having spoiles principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it" Colossians 2:15.

If Jesus did not defeat sin, death and the devil, then Jesus is not Lord. If Jesus is not Lord then he should be removed from his position at the right hand of God in heaven. If Jesus did not defeat sin, death and the devil and is not the savior of the whole world then we are all still in our sins.

There are some things in the Bible that are very important. One of them is that Jesus is the savior of the whole world and has defeated sin, death and the devil. If you don't believe that, then you have a savior that is a failure. You can't be saved by a Jesus that is a failure.

Calvinist want us to deny that Jesus is the savior of the world. To deny that Jesus is the savior of the world is to deny the Gospel and justification by faith. This is exactly what the devil wants you to do.
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Everything is already determined before it takes place.

True or false?
 
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Robert Pate

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True or False said:
Everything is already determined before it takes place.

True or false?
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False. God is not a robot, nor are we robots. When it comes to salvation that has ALREADY been resolved by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that... "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved, Romans 10:13.
 
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Robert Pate said:
False. God is not a robot, nor are we robots. When it comes to salvation that has ALREADY been resolved by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that... "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved, Romans 10:13.
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Can you name one thing that is not predetermined by anything else?

True or false?
 
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ttruscott said:
A short perusal of common interpretations:

Psalm 9:17 ►​

Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version​
The wicked go down to the realm of the dead, all the nations that forget God.

The wicked willgo down to the grave. This is the fate of all the nations who ignore God.

The wicked shall return to Sheol, all the nations that forget God.

The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

The wicked will return to Sheol-- all the nations that forget God.

The wicked will turn back to where the dead are — all the nations that have forgotten God.

The wicked are turned back and sent to Sheol; this is the destiny of all the nations that ignore God,

The wicked shall be turned back to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.

The wicked shall turn back to Sheol, and all the peoples that forget God

Wicked people, all the nations who forget God, will return to the grave.

The wicked shall return to the nether-world, Even all the nations that forget God.

The wicked will return to Sheol,
Even all the nations who forget God.

The wicked shall be put into Sheol, all the Gentiles that forget God.

The wicked shall be turned into sheol, and all the nations that forget God.

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

The wicked shall be turned back unto Sheol, Even all the nations that forget God.

The wicked shall be turned into hell, all the nations that forget God.

The wicked shall be turned into Sheol, all the nations that forget God.

The wicked shall return to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

The wicked shall be turned back to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.

The wicked do turn back to Sheol, All nations forgetting God.

So you scorn Strong's because he disagrees with your theology? Here is the Hebrew concordance for your edification:
Psalm 9:17
HEB: יָשׁ֣וּבוּ רְשָׁעִ֣ים לִשְׁא֑וֹלָה
The wicked will return to Sheol,
will return the wicked to Sheol

and the same word is also to be turned back (not away from) as in to return, in Psalm 59:6 and Psalm 70:3 so those quotes with 'turn back' are in essential agreement with return, not to be turned into...
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Again, Mr. Strong is not a prophet, not an apostle, not even a disciple in the Bible.
I debate the written scriptures that are preserved by God and Mr. Strong is not the deciding factor.

Strong even committed to a denomination. False denominations have demonic influence.
 
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ttruscott said:
You haven't read 1 Peter 2 in full context recently, have you. It is no more about Jews being cut off than my left ear. It is about people being astray in sin and being encouraged to return to Christ to be holy.
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Take it slower. Jesus had already came by the time Peter writes what he does, and Jesus has already been crucified. Peter is speaking to people who are being evangelized. Peter is not speaking to the lost sheep of Israel WHO ALREADY KNEW they had to repent and repented with John's baptism of repentance.

You really think I haven't read 1 Peter 2 lately? Think again and be more careful.
 
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ttruscott said:
Sure there were bad human shepherds who were cursed but Peter is NOT talking about them. These sheep in 1 Peter 2:25 whoever they were returned to the Shepherd and so no mistake can be made about who this is, He is named as the Bishop of their souls. Peter is NOT talking about Jewish leaders failing in their duties but Christians as the context of the phrase shows clearly: 23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

If you can make this Shepherd the Bishop of our soul to be a false shepherd who betrayed the flock just to avoid dealing with the fact that going astray into our sins means we were in His flock then left and that our conversion is a true return to Him, our Saviour, then I am beat.
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You are getting upset because the truth is making you see that your beliefs are false.
 
iouae

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Robert Pate said:
In the old Testament era God was bringing forth a nation and a people from whom the savior of the world would come. Now that the savior has arrived God is no longer a respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. It is God's will now that we all become conformed to the image of his Son, Romans 8:29.
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Exactly.

1Ti 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

This passage in Timothy goes completely against Calvinistic predestination which would have only those predestined to be saved.

And it shows that God does not get ALL that He wants. Some are not saved.
And the parable of the sower explains why not all are saved, time and chance being one of these factors.
 
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ttruscott said:
The parable Matt 13:36 in His EXPLANATION ie, no hyperbole, no metaphor, no analogy, says that the good seed are THE PEOPLE OF THE KINGDOM SOWN INTO THE WORLD BY THE SON OF MAN and it says that the tares are the people of the evil one sown into the world by the devil. ...just like a farmer scatters seeds of grain.It is the parable of the sower that speaks of seed, the parable of the good seed and the weeds has the seeds being people... and they are sown as sinners from the git go, not after they have lived and done evil. Since none are good,
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You are wrong there because the Bible says that some are good.

ttruscott said:
the good seed cannot be morally good since they are sinners liable to be pulled up in the judgement against the tares, so good must be a status word denoting their relationship with GOD, ie, as one of HIS elect.
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You are really off. If you were more careful that would not have happened.

So let's discuss this further.

This is the parable of the sower explained:

Matthew 13:18-23

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:


19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

Can you see by now how you are mistaking the seed to be people? The seed is the words of God, and where the seeds fall represent people.

ttruscott said:
21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
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You could be all those places (people) at one time or another in your life, but Jesus tells you how to be the one with a good heart and so be saved.

I want to help those who do not understand and the devil takes what they had. I am the enemy of the devil because I understand what Jesus teaches and I want to help others.
 
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Robert Pate

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God's Truth said:
You need to check your beliefs. How do you get that God is not the one over everything?
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You apparently believe that God is the minister of sin.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished by his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:15. But you don't believe that.
 
Evil.Eye.*{@}*

Evil.Eye.*{@}*

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God's Truth said:
You are wrong there because the Bible says that some are good.


You are really off. If you were more careful that would not have happened.

So let's discuss this further.

This is the parable of the sower explained:

Matthew 13:18-23

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:


19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

Can you see by now how you are mistaking the seed to be people? The seed is the words of God, and where the seeds fall represent people.



You could be all those places (people) at one time or another in your life, but Jesus tells you how to be the one with a good heart and so be saved.

I want to help those who do not understand and the devil takes what they had. I am the enemy of the devil because I understand what Jesus teaches and I want to help others.
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Luke 18:19 Only God

Matthew 7:11 From the very “Mouth” of God...


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