Why I Don't Believe in Calvinism or Predestination

beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
That is a false accusation. Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the whole world unto God by his life, death and resurrection, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. But some blind fools like yourself don't believe it.
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Don't you believe that sinners Christ died for are still lost ?
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Only Gospel rejecting, Christ denying sinners like yourself will go to hell. You more than qualify.
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False preaching!


2 Cor. 5:19 is referring exclusively to Christ's Sheep He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15: which make up The Eternally Forgiven World: God's elect who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love and to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7 .


But not the condemned world:

1 Cor. 11:32
But when we are judged [Christ's Sheep], we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


The cursed world of the goats were already prepared for the lake of fire from everlasting.

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nanja said:
False preaching!


2 Cor. 5:19 is referring exclusively to Christ's Sheep He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15: which make up The Eternally Forgiven World: God's elect who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love and to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7 .


But not the condemned world:

1 Cor. 11:32
But when we are judged [Christ's Sheep], we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


The cursed world of the goats were already prepared for the lake of fire from everlasting.

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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You are the cursed. Your doctrine is blasphemy against God and his Son Jesus Christ.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Nanja said:
False preaching!


2 Cor. 5:19 is referring exclusively to Christ's Sheep He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15: which make up The Eternally Forgiven World: God's elect who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love and to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7 .


But not the condemned world:

1 Cor. 11:32
But when we are judged [Christ's Sheep], we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


The cursed world of the goats were already prepared for the lake of fire from everlasting.

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Click to expand...

Why are you claiming there are sheep in Paul's letters? Do you just write your own Bible?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
glorydaz said:
Why are you claiming there are sheep in Paul's letters? Do you just write your own Bible?
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So when Paul calls the the Christians 'flock', it is not about sheep? lol

Acts 20:29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.


So what are these wolves going to do according to Paul, get a flock of geese?
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
"Reconciled" and "Reconciling".

The work of salvation is ongoing. It's why we preach the Gospel.

We see that here. 2 Corinthians 5:18, 2 Cor. 5:19, 2 Cor. 5:20
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
So when Paul calls the the Christians 'flock', it is not about sheep? lol

Acts 20:29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.


So what are these wolves going to do according to Paul, get a flock of geese?
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That's talking about the Jewish Church not he body of Christ.

Corinthians isn't written to the Jewish Church, and that's the verse under discussion.
 
D

Danoh

New member
glorydaz said:
The early church was primarily Jewish. Notice, though that Jesus was not the Shepherd, but the elders were to shepherd or lead the flock or assembly.
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No, the early church was not Jewish - the early Jewish church (under the Twelve) was "Jews and prosylites."

As was the early Body church (under Paul).

And GT is actually right on her one point there - at that point in Acts, Paul was addressing the following people...

Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. 20:18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,

20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

That last passage is very similar in sense to these..

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

And especially similar to these...

Romans 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

His mention of the inheritance there being the issue of what the building up of the Believer in a sound understanding of the doctrines of grace is meant to result in - in being able to do this here...

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

The word of His grace enabling that result through this here...

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

In Acts 20, Paul was speaking to elders of that assembly of Body members from Ephesus, and so on.

Which is why what he to them about wolves, etc., there, he repeated the basic thought of in writing here...

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The trail of interconnections between all those things as one doctrine (Establishment Truth), ever being a long, winding, and fascinating one.

Rom.5:8; 14:5.
 
D

Danoh

New member
glorydaz said:
So, when I said "primarily Jewish" I was wrong. Gotcha. :rolleyes:
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Actually, as to THAT church (Early church of Acts 2), you'd be right - Acts 2:5.

And to think that was one of the very first passages I ever memorized from Acts.

But you were not talking about them - you were still off :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Danoh said:
Actually, as to THAT church (Early church of Acts 2), you'd be right - Acts 2:5.

And to think that was one of the very first passages I ever memorized from Acts.

But you were not talking about them - you were still off :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.
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So you say.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Danoh said:
Actually, as to THAT church (Early church of Acts 2), you'd be right - Acts 2:5.

And to think that was one of the very first passages I ever memorized from Acts.

But you were not talking about them - you were still off :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.
Click to expand...

She sure is off. She just can't admit it.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Danoh said:
No, the early church was not Jewish - the early Jewish church (under the Twelve) was "Jews and prosylites."

As was the early Body church (under Paul).

And GT is actually right on her one point there - at that point in Acts, Paul was addressing the following people...

Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. 20:18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,

20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

That last passage is very similar in sense to these..

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

And especially similar to these...

Romans 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

His mention of the inheritance there being the issue of what the building up of the Believer in a sound understanding of the doctrines of grace is meant to result in - in being able to do this here...

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

The word of His grace enabling that result through this here...

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

In Acts 20, Paul was speaking to elders of that assembly of Body members from Ephesus, and so on.

Which is why what he to them about wolves, etc., there, he repeated the basic thought of in writing here...

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The trail of interconnections between all those things as one doctrine (Establishment Truth), ever being a long, winding, and fascinating one.

Rom.5:8; 14:5.
Click to expand...

Good job on that and no insults.
 
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