ECT WHY I DO NOT FOLLOW JESUS !!

[Totton Linnet]

So how much obedience should believers have?

We should have all the obedience we can...but let's not say that we were saved by it, are saved by it or will be continue to be saved by it.

God does not say

"By obedience to My commands are ye save" He says "By grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God ...lest GT and meshackles should boast in My presence"

Even the faith is not of ourselves

 

[God's Truth]

We should have all the obedience can...but let's not say that we were saved by it, are saved by it or will be continue to be saved by it.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

God does not say

"By obedience to My commands are ye save"

God does say that.


John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.


Jesus also says that you are his family and friend IF you obey.

Do you want the scripture references?

He says "By grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves...lest GT and meshackles should boast in My presence"

That is about the ceremonial works.

The Jews could boast in their circumcision, and the other ceremonial works.

Even the faith is not of ourselves

Faith is from God, from reading His powerful message, the Bible, the New Testament. It has the powerful message that saves. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading the supernatural message!

Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

 

[achduke]

Jesus says if you obey his commands then YOU WILL HAVE FAITH.

It is not SELF righteous to obey Jesus' words. It is not self righteous to be a servant to God.


We are speaking of the NEW LAW. The new law is of faith.



You will have to give the exact scriptures you are referring to, since you do not understand the scriptures correctly.

I did give you scripture but you feel OT does not apply to you. You like to pick and choose how you are obedient. Even Paul circumcised, baptized and followed the feasts.

ZECHARIAH 14:16

 

[God's Truth]

I did give you scripture but you feel OT does not apply to you. You like to pick and choose how you are obedient. Even Paul circumcised, baptized and followed the feasts.

I obey all of Jesus' teachings. Paul only circumcised Timothy so that he could go with Paul around the Jews.

ZECHARIAH 14:16

Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets.

We have to worship Jesus.

 

[achduke]

I obey all of Jesus' teachings. Paul only circumcised Timothy so that he could go with Paul around the Jews.

And why would Paul care what men think? He was not a hypocrite.

Galatians 1:10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets.

We have to worship Jesus.

Yet once again Zechariah 14:16 says that we will once again be keeping the feast of tabernacles.

 

[God's Truth]

And why would Paul care what men think? He was not a hypocrite.

Galatians 1:10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

You are calling Paul a hypocrite. You should be more careful.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

:mock: LA

Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

[achduke]

You are calling Paul a hypocrite. You should be more careful.

Quite the opposite. It is not illegal to circumcise someone. Paul saw value in it with Timothy for the ministry. Paul listened to God not to man. Circumcision did not save Timothy. He was already saved! The Jews did not force Paul to circumcise Timothy. Paul cares not what man thinks but instead cares what God thinks. Paul obviously thinks it is alright to circumcise. It is still obedient to be circumcised if God leads you to circumcision.

1 Corinthians 9:20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;

Paul does it for the ministry.

 

[meshak]

Quite the opposite. It is not illegal to circumcise someone.

Paul was being a hypocrite. He humiliated Peter for circumcising followers.

 

[achduke]

Paul was being a hypocrite. He humiliated Peter for circumcising followers.

Paul criticised Peter for pretending he was not eating with Gentiles when the Jews would come around. There is no law from God that Jews could not eat food with the Gentiles. Peter was the one being hypocritical. Peter was listening to and fearing men.

Acts 11:17 "If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"

Galatians 2:12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

 

[meshak]

Paul criticised Peter for pretending he was not eating with Gentiles when the Jews would come around. There is no law from God that Jews could not eat food with the Gentiles. Peter was the one being hypocritical. Peter was listening to and fearing men.

So they circumcised new gentile believers?

 

[achduke]

So they circumcised new gentile believers?

That is what the circumcision party did. They were unbelieved men that would tell people they needed to be circumcised before they would be saved. Faith first and then if you are led to be circumcised then do so but you are not saved from being circumcised. The circumcision party taught the law saved. It does not. If an unbeliever goes out and gets circumcised are they now a believer?


Peter was not part of the circumcision party but was fearing them.

 

[meshak]

That is what the circumcision party did. They were unbelieved men that would tell people they needed to be circumcised before they would be saved. Faith first and then if you are led to be circumcised then do so but you are not saved from being circumcised. The circumcision party taught the law saved. It does not. If an unbeliever goes out and gets circumcised are they now a believer?


Peter was not part of the circumcision party but was fearing them.

My point is that Paul circimsiced Timothy that is clear hypocrisy. He was afraid of men.

 

[achduke]

My point is that Paul circimsiced Timothy that is clear hypocrisy. He was afraid of men.

Paul said he did it for the ministry not out of fear. He said he listened to God not to men. Jews would not listen to a Greek unless that person was circumcised. How effective would Timothy be if the Jews did not listen to him anyway?

Peter clearly was fearful of men and would shy away when the Jews would show up.

 

[achduke]

Clearly you are wrong. Where are the writings of Thomas, Andrew, Phillip, Bartholomew and the others that endorse Paul? There are none.

But more to the point, you seem to want to provoke meshak. Shame on you.

Peter did endorse Paul.

 

[achduke]

God does say that.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

To love Christ is to believe in Christ and have faith. This happens before obedience.

 

[meshak]

Paul said he did it for the ministry not out of fear. He said he listened to God not to men. Jews would not listen to a Greek unless that person was circumcised. How effective would Timothy be if the Jews did not listen to him anyway?

Peter clearly was fearful of men and would shy away when the Jews would show up.

Why did Paul circumcise Timothy?

 

[achduke]

Why did Paul circumcise Timothy?

For the ministry so the Jews would listen to him.

 

[meshak]

For the ministry so the Jews would listen to him.

You see, he was afraid of being rejected.

He did not have much faith in God.

 

[achduke]

You see, he was afraid of being rejected.

He did not have much faith in God.

That is not what scripture says. He was imprisoned, tortured and the killed. Also Paul himself says everything he did was for God and Christ and not for man. Even Peter backs Paul.