Hi and why do you not know what happened 2000 years ago ??
Read Luke 13:6-9 and see that the FATHER GOD cut Israel down and Israel was set aside as Acts 13:46 and Acts 18:6 and Acts 28:28 says now the Paul will now go to Gentile !!
dan p
ECT WHY GRACE IS BEFORE PENTECOST ??
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Hi and why do you not know what happened 2000 years ago ??
Read Luke 13:6-9 and see that the FATHER GOD cut Israel down and Israel was set aside as Acts 13:46 and Acts 18:6 and Acts 28:28 says now the Paul will now go to Gentile !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
I agree TOTALLY. That's why Jews are no longer God's chosen people but Christians are.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
turbosixx
New member
The way I understand it, physical Israel being God's people wasn't set aside, it was done away with. That’s what Paul says here.
Phil. 3: 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
In the three verses you posted, in each one who is Paul talking to? Jews. He never stopped preaching to the Jews.
Here it says he received all, not just Gentiles.
Acts 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
What is your understanding of why Paul was preaching the kingdom of God?
Hi and Rom 11: 1 and 2 will explain all for you and the 3 verb tenses in verse 1 prove you wrong !!
Check it and see and I have to leave and if I remember will show you why !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
The way I understand it, Romans 11 makes sense. Israel will be saved on an individual basis not as a nation. That is what Paul is saying. For I too am an Israelite
The physical Israel nation of old was just a shadow until Christ came just as the law was a shadow. There is no more physical circumcision, no more single nation that is God's people, no more temple, no more man as priest and so on and will not be in the future.
The future is now. In the Christian dispensation, Christians are God's people (OT Jews) and non-Christians (OT Gentiles) are without God. Jesus is our high priest, we are priest, we are the temple and so on.
Hi and glad to hear you are saved !!
#1 , In verse 26 , all that are left out of Israel wll be saved .
#2 , Let me know after reading Isa 66:8 a nation born in a day !!
#3 . The Mark of the BEAST , 666 is given to Israel as Satan is trying to destoey all Jews so there will never be a Millennial Kingdom .
dan p
It is no different than what we tell you. Or what Paul said in Corinthians. Hold on to what we are saying. You don't. Hold on means to believe what you are being told. Place your trust in it.
Those that go to a Catholic confessional are going to hell. They don't believe the gospel, they have not placed their trust in the finished work at the cross. Same thing.
Oh, so you are now OSAS? Answer honestly and I will explain it to you.
Hi and the 3 verb tenses are all in the Aorist Tense of PASSED ACTION and that means Paul was SEPARATED FROM THE WOMB ON !!
Rom 1:1 is saying the same thing !!
So is 1 Cor 15:8 !!
So does 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 !!
Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 and 1 Cor 12:3 is the proof !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
Hey Nick. Thanks for working with me on this. I am doing my best to hold on to what I read in scripture and to understand the truth.
I agree. Their religion is all about man. The head of their church is a man, they pray to men, the name on their buildings are men's names, they do what men say and so on. They are trusting in man not Christ. They don't believe the gospel because they aren't taught the gospel, they are taught the teachings of the church.
turbosixx
New member
No, I’m not OSAS. If it is the truth, you bet I want to believe it, who wouldn’t? To me it sounds too good to be true and therefore I must be fully convinced before I buy into it and proclaim it.
When I look at the language that is used written to Christians, it doesn’t look like OSAS. The message I see is, you’re saved in Christ if you stay in Christ. For example:
1 Cor. 15: 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
Here Paul is telling these people they are saved by the gospel but then he adds a condition, if you hold fast. If they don’t hold fast he tells them they believed in vain. I hear everyone saying "all" you have to do is believe. If all we have to do is believe, then how does one believe in vain?
Also, when we are given examples of those who go to hell, what is the charge against them? That they didn’t believe or is it their deeds? For example, the one talent man, why was he sent to hell?
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Hi , and that is why I say , WHAT HAPPENED TO PENTECOST ?
Israel was cut down as Luke 13:6-9 records and as Dr Luke wrote in Acts 13:46 and Acts 18:6 and in Acts 28:28 and this just a FEW passages !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
Two questions.
First, Jesus was the one saying the kingdom was at hand. Why would he proclaim something that wasn't going to happen soon?
Second, just as the law went from being written in stone to written on the heart so did the people. The people of God are no longer a physical race but a spiritual race. Jewish people were saved on Pentecost. How/by what were they saved?
Then 3000 did not have eternal life at Pentecost, even though they were saved.
Just like during all of the "Old Testament".
1 Samuel 16
14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the Lord troubled him.
Is this where you stand? One can lose salvation?
turbosixx
New member
Please explain how you see this is like the OT. I see something new that has never been preached before not something old.
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
turbosixx
New member
Yes.
Could you please explian this verse and show me how you do not see the "if" as being conditional. If the "if" statement isn't a condition, why not and what does it mean? How can one believe in vain?
1 Cor. 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
So you are saying that the condition of salvation is to hold fast to the Word?
turbosixx
New member
I'm saying those aren't my words. 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
If you don't see the "if" as being a condition, please explain.
The ‘if’ in the text CANNOT possibly mean that the brethren will lose their salvation ‘if ‘they forget in their brain what Paul preached to them. That being the case then a saved person who has a brain disorder such as Alzheimer’s disease and they do not have in memory the Gospel which Paul declared, then according to the ‘conditional’ security experts the text says the person is lost.
Paul addresses the church of Corinth, as there has obviously been some misunderstanding about the Gospel of grace which Paul had been teaching. (1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?) Paul wants to clear this up as he is a faithful witness of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.) Remember Paul had taught the Corinthians by preaching the word ( vrs 12) so in verse 2 he says ‘if ye keep in memory what I preached’ is the same as what I’m about to write in verses 3 & 4. In other words, if you are teaching that there is no risen Saviour then you are still in your sins because you’ve misunderstood my preaching and you were never saved in the first place.
Hence the ‘brethren’ are Corinthians who received the gospel, stand in the gospel, and are saved by believing the gospel written in verses 1 Cor: 3 & 4 according to the scriptures. Also, these first two verses are also aimed at the unsaved Corinthians who are thought to be ‘brethren’ and are part of the church set up, but they believe in a dead Saviour Jesus Christ, so their faith is vain and they are still lost because they never believed according to the scriptures ( vrs 2, 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain., 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.,) Paul tells the Corinthians that the so called ‘brethren’ in the church who are telling everyone “that there is no resurrection of the dead” that they were never saved in the first place because their belief was in vain.
Please notice the comma after the word ‘saved’ which separates ‘saved’ and ‘if ’. At this time the comma indicates that Paul switches the brethren to their memory of the events of their own salvation when he preached and says that what he is about to write ( vrs 3 & 4) shouldn’t be strange or alien to them ( in memory ) unless they have believed in vain.
Believing the word of God, and allowing the scriptures to speak for themselves, gives the answer to the insecurists, that their pet doctrine IS another gospel ( Gal 1:8). Verse 2 definitely doesn’t mean that there was a condition to keep them saved, but it does say that there is a condition in getting saved. That condition is to believe the gospel according to the scriptures ( vrs 3 & 4 ).
So according to sound doctrine Paul’s Gospel is NOT Conditional as far as keeping salvation! (Taken from Conditional Security refuted by Kevin Rae)
Paul addresses the church of Corinth, as there has obviously been some misunderstanding about the Gospel of grace which Paul had been teaching. (1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?) Paul wants to clear this up as he is a faithful witness of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.) Remember Paul had taught the Corinthians by preaching the word ( vrs 12) so in verse 2 he says ‘if ye keep in memory what I preached’ is the same as what I’m about to write in verses 3 & 4. In other words, if you are teaching that there is no risen Saviour then you are still in your sins because you’ve misunderstood my preaching and you were never saved in the first place.
Hence the ‘brethren’ are Corinthians who received the gospel, stand in the gospel, and are saved by believing the gospel written in verses 1 Cor: 3 & 4 according to the scriptures. Also, these first two verses are also aimed at the unsaved Corinthians who are thought to be ‘brethren’ and are part of the church set up, but they believe in a dead Saviour Jesus Christ, so their faith is vain and they are still lost because they never believed according to the scriptures ( vrs 2, 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain., 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.,) Paul tells the Corinthians that the so called ‘brethren’ in the church who are telling everyone “that there is no resurrection of the dead” that they were never saved in the first place because their belief was in vain.
Please notice the comma after the word ‘saved’ which separates ‘saved’ and ‘if ’. At this time the comma indicates that Paul switches the brethren to their memory of the events of their own salvation when he preached and says that what he is about to write ( vrs 3 & 4) shouldn’t be strange or alien to them ( in memory ) unless they have believed in vain.
Believing the word of God, and allowing the scriptures to speak for themselves, gives the answer to the insecurists, that their pet doctrine IS another gospel ( Gal 1:8). Verse 2 definitely doesn’t mean that there was a condition to keep them saved, but it does say that there is a condition in getting saved. That condition is to believe the gospel according to the scriptures ( vrs 3 & 4 ).
So according to sound doctrine Paul’s Gospel is NOT Conditional as far as keeping salvation! (Taken from Conditional Security refuted by Kevin Rae)