ECT WHY GLOSSA /TONGUES ARE NOT FOR TODAY !!

[DAN P]

I am a believer in the witness of the written word, but I am curious as to how you arrive at your explanation regarding the work of the Holy Spirit in the writing of the biblical message.

Hi , and it reads in 2 Peter 1:21 , " NOT by the WILL of man , but holy men of God SPAKE as they were MOVED by the Holy SPIRIT ."

There are 3 verb tenses in this verse !

#1 , Prophecy " CAME /PHERO " by the will of man , is in the Aorist Tense or the Past Tense !

#2 , The second one is " SPAKE /LALEO " but holy men of God " spake " as God moved them to speak and write is also in the AORIST TENSE .

#3 , The third tense , " as they were MOVED/PHERO is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE which means a CONTINUOUS ACTION of the Holy Spirit until the canon closed , and the Phrase " IT IS WRITTEN " is found more than once in the bible !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Because you've redacted I Corinthians 14:39 from your Bible?

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. I Corinthians 14:39

Hi , and it is obviously , you do not understand why GLOSSA were given and then taken AWAY !!

It is a witness AGAINST Israel and only 3 GIFTS were taken away , Propecy , Tongues or Langagues , and Knowledge ! 1 Cor 13;8 !!

dan p

 

[jsjohnnt]

Some translations have one scripture better translated than another.

However, Jesus gives UNDERSTANDING to those who obey him.

We do not have to learn Greek, or study words in Greek to know God's Truth. YOU HAVE TO OBEY JESUS TO KNOW HIS TRUTH.

That is what the Bible says.

The Bible (N.T.) was written in greek. If you want to know what the Bible says, it certainly helps to know a little greek or, at least, to make use of the aids that give you access to the inspired language of the NT such as Strongs, and its lexical aids in the back of that book.

BTW, you do not have to obey in order to be saved, unless you count surrender and acceptance as obedience.

 

[jsjohnnt]

Hi , and it reads in 2 Peter 1:21 , " NOT by the WILL of man , but holy men of God SPAKE as they were MOVED by the Holy SPIRIT ."

There are 3 verb tenses in this verse !

#1 , Prophecy " CAME /PHERO " by the will of man , is in the Aorist Tense or the Past Tense !

#2 , The second one is " SPAKE /LALEO " but holy men of God " spake " as God moved them to speak and write is also in the AORIST TENSE .

#3 , The third tense , " as they were MOVED/PHERO is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE which means a CONTINUOUS ACTION of the Holy Spirit until the canon closed , and the Phrase " IT IS WRITTEN " is found more than once in the bible !!

dan p

I think on your #1, you meant to say that no prophecy came by the will of man.

Secondly, "aorist" is translated with past tense verbs, but is not a time related concept in the gk. It actually means, in and of itself, completed action.

Third, the point of this Peter passage, is that the interpretation of the prophecy (teaching) is as much a part of the revelatory process as was the biblical text.

The Holy Spirit did not stop working when the Bible was finally written. the Spirit continues the revelatory process to this day. Same spirit, same process.

 

[DAN P]

I think on your #1, you meant to say that no prophecy came by the will of man.

Secondly, "aorist" is translated with past tense verbs, but is not a time related concept in the gk. It actually means, in and of itself, completed action.

Third, the point of this Peter passage, is that the interpretation of the prophecy (teaching) is as much a part of the revelatory process as was the biblical text.

The Holy Spirit did not stop working when the Bible was finally written. the Spirit continues the revelatory process to this day. Same spirit, same process.

Hi and I have already changed what is said in 2 Peter , " not by the will of man ."

The Aorist tense is completed action , in the past time !!

Prophecy will again begin in the Great Tribulation passage as explained in Mark 16:15-18 , and then , not only Prophecy , but GLOSSA/LANGAGUES and Knowledge !!

dan p

 

[jsjohnnt]

Hi and I have already changed what is said in 2 Peter , " not by the will of man ."

The Aorist tense is completed action , in the past time !!

Prophecy will again begin in the Great Tribulation passage as explained in Mark 16:15-18 , and then , not only Prophecy , but GLOSSA/LANGAGUES and Knowledge !!

dan p

All completed action is in the past. The aorist is not time related (I can give you references for this conclusion, if you would like). And "prophecy" is not synonymous with "the Bible" in this Peter passage. Peter is talking about biblical revelation (if you will) , not the Bible itself. Ditto for Paul when he wrote "all scripture is God breathed."

Also, you completely ignored my comment as to "interpretation" and the continuing process of revelation. We share in the same "inspired moment" when we are involved in interpretation as were the prophets and apostles as they wrote the text.

 

[DAN P]

All completed action is in the past. The aorist is not time related (I can give you references for this conclusion, if you would like). And "prophecy" is not synonymous with "the Bible" in this Peter passage. Peter is talking about biblical revelation (if you will) , not the Bible itself. Ditto for Paul when he wrote "all scripture is God breathed."

Also, you completely ignored my comment as to "interpretation" and the continuing process of revelation. We share in the same "inspired moment" when we are involved in interpretation as were the prophets and apostles as they wrote the text.

Hi , and the Aorist includes time , otherwise it can not happen as what I say is a point in TIME !

Aorist tense is similat to the Imperfect tense as it continues and than stops .

AT this point in time , I believe that all revelation is written down for all to RIGHTLY DIVIDE !!

DAN P

 

[rougueone]

Hi to all , and here is the MAIN reasons that so-called TONGUES are not for today !!

#1 ,It was a Prophecy to be fulfilled at Pentecost , a Jewish Feast Day !

#2 , It was a Promise given to Israel in Joel 2:28 !

#3 , It was to pass away , by Acts 19:6 !!

#4 , 1 Cor 13:8-13 , as they were a WITNESS to fellow Jews at Jerusalem and to those not Present at Pentecost , like in Acts 19:6 !!

Anyone who says that God SPOKE to them with NEW REVELATION is then ABOVE Scripture as the Canon is CLOSED and is LYING !!

DAN P

If the Gift of tongues is gone then all Gifts are gone.
Yes ?

Thus, I dissent. I was on the fence about tounges. I was not looking nor praying. A critical occurrence happened, and suddenly I spoke in tongues.
Consider your words carefully please. " Lying" is so accusative. Perhaps if you still feel the same use " misguided".

 

[Simon Baker]

Because you've redacted I Corinthians 14:39 from your Bible?

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. I Corinthians 14:39

We do not forbid when it is "real"

 

[Simon Baker]

If the Gift of tongues is gone then all Gifts are gone.
Yes ?

NO

Thus, I dissent. I was on the fence about tounges. I was not looking nor praying. A critical occurrence happened, and suddenly I spoke in tongues.
Consider your words carefully please. " Lying" is so accusative. Perhaps if you still feel the same use " misguided".

Try to never lie. was anyone around when you "suddenly" spoke . . . in tongues ? did you understand what you said ? did anyone else ?is it on video ? i believe you.

 

[jsjohnnt]

Hi to all , and here is the MAIN reasons that so-called TONGUES are not for today !!

#1 ,It was a Prophecy to be fulfilled at Pentecost , a Jewish Feast Day !

#2 , It was a Promise given to Israel in Joel 2:28 !

#3 , It was to pass away , by Acts 19:6 !!

#4 , 1 Cor 13:8-13 , as they were a WITNESS to fellow Jews at Jerusalem and to those not Present at Pentecost , like in Acts 19:6 !!

Anyone who says that God SPOKE to them with NEW REVELATION is then ABOVE Scripture as the Canon is CLOSED and is LYING !!

DAN P

Acts 19:6 says nothing about the gift of tongues passing away.

Further, you seem to believe that tongues was an evangelistic "tool," only. Of course, that is not true. In I Cor 14, Paul makes it clear that his gift of tongues was used frequently, in the privacy of his home or during his devotion time, and was not intelligible (his mind was not fruitful, but his spirit benefited).

 

[jsjohnnt]

Try to never lie. was anyone around when you "suddenly" spoke . . . in tongues ? did you understand what you said ? did anyone else ?is it on video ? i believe you.

The Corinthians misused their gift. That misuse did not invalidate the gift as being from God, however. Paul's gift was not interpreted in his private use (I Cor 14:13 -19).

 

[Aimiel]

Hi , and it is obviously , you do not understand why GLOSSA were given and then taken AWAY !!

It is obvious time for an English lesson. Syntax and grammar jokes aside: I don't understand a LOT of things that quite obviously aren't true.The gifts God has given haven't been taken away, yet.

It is a witness AGAINST Israel and only 3 GIFTS were taken away , Propecy , Tongues or Langagues , and Knowledge ! 1 Cor 13;8 !!

So you're saying books and studying are done? No one need study any more. Wow. I didn't KNOW that! Sorry, but were that which is perfect already here: no one could say, "I didn't KNOW that." The 'perfect' hasn't come or knowledge would cease being necessary. We'd know as we're known. We'd be like Him, for we'd see Him as He is. All gifts would be unnecessary. Thank God His Gifts are secure. We serve a Great God. :thumb:

 

[Aimiel]

We do not forbid when it is "real"

Yes, you do. God made tongues a mystery for His Reasons... one of which you've just made painfully obvious.

 

[DAN P]

It is obvious time for an English lesson. Syntax and grammar jokes aside: I don't understand a LOT of things that quite obviously aren't true.The gifts God has given haven't been taken away, yet.So you're saying books and studying are done? No one need study any more. Wow. I didn't KNOW that! Sorry, but were that which is perfect already here: no one could say, "I didn't KNOW that." The 'perfect' hasn't come or knowledge would cease being necessary. We'd know as we're known. We'd be like Him, for we'd see Him as He is. All gifts would be unnecessary. Thank God His Gifts are secure. We serve a Great God. :thumb:

Hi , and just explain the verb tenses in 1 Cor 13:8 at the begining of the OP ??

DAN P

 

[Aimiel]

:wave:

 

[rougueone]

Try to never lie. was anyone around when you "suddenly" spoke . . . in tongues ? did you understand what you said ? did anyone else ?is it on video ? i believe you.

I spoke them silently. Yes, there was about 20 people within ear shot. They were praising God "as God made happen", as the situation became intense. I then also praised God with them. For about 30 minutes tongues and praise.
The situation resolved itself. I still use tongues. The Holy language that Holy Spirit gifted me with. I speak them silently as Holy Spirit moves me to speak them. I do not understand the language. God does.

 

[jsjohnnt]

Hi , and just explain the verb tenses in 1 Cor 13:8 at the begining of the OP ??

DAN P

Verb tense has nothing to do with the message of I Cor 13:8. Rather, it is one's understanding of "when that which is perfect is come . . ." (v10). In a literal translation, the text says, "when that which is complete (or mature) is come," that will be the end of spiritual teaching (prophesy), tongues and, by association, all spiritual gifts (which would include the gifts of giving, the figt of knowledge, the gift of faith (Romans 12). Obviously, that time has not yet come.

FYI: I am going to give you a few references as to verb tense meaning. I do not believe you got your GK knowledge in a classroom, and that may be the reason for our disagreement. I will try to convince, in terms of scholarship, that verb tense in the gk, has very little to do with time. Present tense verbs really simply express "action with no end in sight." That action might be "eternal," or not. Again, the aorist is not about time at all, rather it frames "completed action." It may picture completed action that has no effect after the fact (Bill ran into a tree and died) or, completed action that has a lasting and eternal effect, through present time (Christ died on the cross for all of mankind). But I will gather up some references, and you can decide for yourself . . . . . . . . . or you can give me references that disprove what I have just said. Good luck with that.

 

[heir]

Tongues were for a sign.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

The Jews required a sign.

1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

There are no more Jews (Hosea 1:9 KJV, Acts 28:17-31 KJV).

There is no more need for tongues. They have ceased (1 Corinthians 13:8 KJV).

just the facts

 

[jsjohnnt]

I spoke them silently. Yes, there was about 20 people within ear shot. They were praising God "as God made happen", as the situation became intense. I then also praised God with them. For about 30 minutes tongues and praise.
The situation resolved itself. I still use tongues. The Holy language that Holy Spirit gifted me with. I speak them silently as Holy Spirit moves me to speak them. I do not understand the language. God does.

My wife speaks in tongues. I do not. But we share the same emotional connection to our Lord. Good testimony.