Why Calvinist, Catholics, Others, Do NOT Have Saving Faith

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Bard_the_Bowman

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God's Truth said:
Put it in your own words, what is in your heart and mind concerning what you were taught from the Catholics.
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Are you asking me question here.

If you clarify that, I will answer.

But first I think it would be appropriate for you to answer the questions I asked of you already.

Peace.
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

New member
God's Truth said:
I have already answered your questions.
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No, you haven't.

We are not to pray to anyone but to God.
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Where does the Bible say that?

God says there is only one mediator and it is Christ.
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Oh, I agree. But what does that mean?

And neither of your comments above answers my question. Earlier you said that praying TO someone is different than praying FOR someone.

This question has not been answered yet:

How is Paul praying FOR someone NOT mediating? If it is not mediating...then what is it?

I belong to the body of Christ. I am part of the one and only Church.
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All Christians say and believe that. And it is true in a certain sense.

The prayers of the saved are like incense.
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How do we know that biblically? Where does the Bible say that?

That is the incense that matters.
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Does the Bible say that somewhere? If yes, please show me where.

If it doesn't, than that would have to be another man-made interpretation, right?

Plus, that isn't what a straightforward reading of Malachi 1:11 says. It just says "incense shall be offered to my name...among the Gentiles...and among the nations."

I take it from your response that that is a No. Your church doesn't do what Malachi says will be done.

What don't you get about the bronze snake being destroyed because the Israelites burned incense to it?
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What do you mean what don't I get? I think I get it ok. God commanded the graven image of a snake to be made to heal the Israelites. Then, and I think it was like 700 years later, when they started worshipping it with incense...He had it destroyed.

Worshipping something that isn't God is a bad thing.

What don't you understand about Malachi 1:11 saying "incense will be offered to my name" as a form of worship that is a good thing?

Using incense to worship God is a good thing.

Jesus holds authority over me.
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All Christians say that, too.

But in Luke 10:16 we see Jesus sharing His authority to the leaders of His Church. And we see Him give that same authority in Matthew 16:19, Matthew 18:17, Matthew 28:20, and elsewhere. We see that authority in action at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.

If you belong to a church where nobody has that authority that Jesus invested into His leaders, how can you believe that you belong to His Church?

You are the one who does not answer questions.
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I do try to. If you can repeat the question(s) that I have failed to answer, I will do so.

Peace.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Bard_the_Bowman said:
No, you haven't.



Where does the Bible say that?



Oh, I agree. But what does that mean?

And neither of your comments above answers my question. Earlier you said that praying TO someone is different than praying FOR someone.

This question has not been answered yet:

How is Paul praying FOR someone NOT mediating? If it is not mediating...then what is it?



All Christians say and believe that. And it is true in a certain sense.



How do we know that biblically? Where does the Bible say that?



Does the Bible say that somewhere? If yes, please show me where.

If it doesn't, than that would have to be another man-made interpretation, right?

Plus, that isn't what a straightforward reading of Malachi 1:11 says. It just says "incense shall be offered to my name...among the Gentiles...and among the nations."

I take it from your response that that is a No. Your church doesn't do what Malachi says will be done.



What do you mean what don't I get? I think I get it ok. God commanded the graven image of a snake to be made to heal the Israelites. Then, and I think it was like 700 years later, when they started worshipping it with incense...He had it destroyed.

Worshipping something that isn't God is a bad thing.

What don't you understand about Malachi 1:11 saying "incense will be offered to my name" as a form of worship that is a good thing?

Using incense to worship God is a good thing.



All Christians say that, too.

But in Luke 10:16 we see Jesus sharing His authority to the leaders of His Church. And we see Him give that same authority in Matthew 16:19, Matthew 18:17, Matthew 28:20, and elsewhere. We see that authority in action at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.

If you belong to a church where nobody has that authority that Jesus invested into His leaders, how can you believe that you belong to His Church?



I do try to. If you can repeat the question(s) that I have failed to answer, I will do so.

Peace.
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You are merely repeating yourself, and I keep explaining the same thing to you repeatedly.

I will tell you what...

You give me one link to read and respond to, and I will give you just one link.

The condition is that we have to read what is said in the link, we had to read it carefully, and then we are to come back here and give our response.

How about that?
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
God's Truth said:
So ignorant and a failure to obey.

As for being transformed, when you have Jesus' teachings in your mind, you are being transformed with these righteous commands to think about and act upon.

Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

2 Corinthians 2:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
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There are two kinds of righteousness.
Man's righteousness and God's righteousness.

What you have is man's righteousness, "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness (Yours) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God, Romans 10:3.

This scripture was written especially for you.

When you submit yourself to the righteousness of God, you will profess that you are "The Chief of Sinners" just like Paul did.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
jcforever said:
I don't believe that any man should judge who is saved or not. God chose those who are to be used for his purpose and since he isn't concerned what his people call themselves, the one he chose will get to know him and do the works that were purposed for him.

Romans 9:
28: We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
30: And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

II Thesalonians 2:
13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 15
16: You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
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Another Calvinist.

Same old narrow view of God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ.

None of the scripture that you quoted proves that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell. There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell. If predestination was a true doctrine the Bible would be full of it. The word "predestination" only appears in the scriptures 4 times. But the words "Believe" and "Faith" appear in the Bible hundreds of times.

Jesus encouraged us to believe in him, John 3:16. Those that believe in Jesus and his Gospel are the only ones that receive the Holy Spirit, Galatians 3:2. The Holy Spirit only comes by hearing and believing the Gospel, Romans 10:17. God does not zap people with the Holy Spirit. You must be born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23. You are not a Christian. What you are is a counterfeit. Call on Christ to save you, or perish, Romans 10:13.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
jcforever said:
Human beings cannot call on anyone to save them. God is the one who chooses which one is used for his purpose during this age. The elect are chosen, they didn't choose themselves.

Mark 13:
20: And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.

I Peter 1
1: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappado'cia, Asia, and Bithyn'ia,
2: chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Ephesians 1
1: Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are also faithful in Christ Jesus:
2: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.
5: He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
9: For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ
10: as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11: In him, according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will,
12: we who first hoped in Christ have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of his glory.
13: In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14: which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Apparently you avoid these scriptures during your reading and studying.
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You have the same problem that the other Calvinist have on this Forum. You have not been born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23, which is the Gospel. You are not capable of receiving truth. Tell me about your salvation experience. You don't have one do you? You don't have a testimony about how you became a Christian.

Everyone that was saved in the New Testament were saved because they heard and believed the Gospel. You don't know what the Gospel is. You probably think the Gospel is that you have been predestinated. Your Calvinist doctrine makes God unjust. God does not predestinate people to hell. If anyone goes to hell it will be because like you they have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided for everyone by Jesus Christ.

God has ALREADY reconciled you to himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18 and not just you, but the whole world, 2 Corinthians 5:19. But that is not good enough, you want to be predestinated. You are a thief and a robber that is trying to get into the sheepfold some other way than by grace through faith, John 10:1.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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Robert Pate said:
Another Calvinist.
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Looks that way.
But not all Calvinists believe everything the exact same way.


jcforever said:
Human beings cannot call on anyone to save them. God is the one who chooses which one is used for his purpose during this age. The elect are chosen, they didn't choose themselves.
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I am curious as to whether you are one of those Calvinists that does believe in a future restoration of the nation of Israel, or one that does not.
Because the nation of Israel is certainly chosen of GOD, elect of GOD, beloved of GOD.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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jcforever said:
I guarantee you that I have nothing to do with religions, traditions and doctrines of men. That all comes from Lucifer and worshiping the beast.
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Okey dokey, but that didn't answer the question.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Tambora said:
Looks that way.
But not all Calvinists believe everything the exact same way.



I am curious as to whether you are one of those Calvinists that does believe in a future restoration of the nation of Israel, or one that does not.
Because the nation of Israel is certainly chosen of GOD, elect of GOD, beloved of GOD.
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Jesus Christ was the Elect of God as the promised Savior.

The nation of Israel was elect of God to produce the Savior.

The elect children of God are all believers for whom the Savior incarnated and died to save.

Distinctive, holy purposes, for all God's choices.
 
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