Why Believe in a god?

[Nihilo]

I'm struggling to be as clear as can be here. Is a person who rapes and murders children evil? Is raping and murdering children evil? Yes or no. Anybody.

No, but sick. Psychologically sick. Evil is a permanent condition that affects the attribute of Freewill. If the attribute of Freewill is removed from a man, he can no longer be liable or punished for his wrongdoings. Sick yes, he can be treated of his condition or being removed by euthanasia in case he proceeds with ill-using his Freewill to practice evil. No one is born evil. He becomes by going through many moral distortions.

Can you please describe the difference between what you mean by "evil" and "moral distortions" above? Thank you.

 

[Nihilo]

God's Word says "in six days the*Lord*made the heavens and the earth,*the sea, and all that is in them". Ex. 20:11

:up:

 

[Nihilo]

Is a child rapist/murderer evil, yes or censored no.

Yes because it is morally reprehensible, arising from bad character, causing discomfort, repulsion and harm.

Then again if I were to follow the examples of the old testament I'd have to conclude it wasn't. Since there are fairly lax excuses in it for rape being OK (like having trouble finding a wife). Does that mean the bible is evil?... :chuckle:

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Have you read this story? It's a beaut.

Spoiler

Genesis

Chapter 34

And Dinah the daughter of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob, went out to see the daughters of the land. And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her. And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel. And Shechem spake unto his father Hamor, saying, Get me this damsel to wife. And Jacob heard that he had defiled Dinah his daughter: now his sons were with his cattle in the field: and Jacob held his peace until they were come.

Spoiler

And Hamor the father of Shechem went out unto Jacob to commune with him. And the sons of Jacob came out of the field when they heard it: and the men were grieved, and they were very wroth, because he had wrought folly in Israel in lying with Jacob’s daughter; which thing ought not to be done. And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife. And make ye marriages with us, and give your daughters unto us, and take our daughters unto you. And ye shall dwell with us: and the land shall be before you; dwell and trade ye therein, and get you possessions therein. And Shechem said unto her father and unto her brethren, Let me find grace in your eyes, and what ye shall say unto me I will give. Ask me never so much dowry and gift, and I will give according as ye shall say unto me: but give me the damsel to wife.

Spoiler

And the sons of Jacob answered Shechem and Hamor his father deceitfully, and said, because he had defiled Dinah their sister: And they said unto them, We cannot do this thing, to give our sister to one that is uncircumcised; for that were a reproach unto us: But in this will we consent unto you: If ye will be as we be, that every male of you be circumcised; Then will we give our daughters unto you, and we will take your daughters to us, and we will dwell with you, and we will become one people. But if ye will not hearken unto us, to be circumcised; then will we take our daughter, and we will be gone.

Spoiler

And their words pleased Hamor, and Shechem Hamor’s son. And the young man deferred not to do the thing, because he had delight in Jacob’s daughter: and he was more honourable than all the house of his father. And Hamor and Shechem his son came unto the gate of their city, and communed with the men of their city, saying, These men are peaceable with us; therefore let them dwell in the land, and trade therein; for the land, behold, it is large enough for them; let us take their daughters to us for wives, and let us give them our daughters. Only herein will the men consent unto us for to dwell with us, to be one people, if every male among us be circumcised, as they are circumcised. Shall not their cattle and their substance and every beast of theirs be ours? only let us consent unto them, and they will dwell with us. And unto Hamor and unto Shechem his son hearkened all that went out of the gate of his city; and every male was circumcised, all that went out of the gate of his city.

Spoiler

And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah’s brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males. And they slew Hamor and Shechem his son with the edge of the sword, and took Dinah out of Shechem’s house, and went out. The sons of Jacob came upon the slain, and spoiled the city, because they had defiled their sister. They took their sheep, and their oxen, and their *****, and that which was in the city, and that which was in the field, And all their wealth, and all their little ones, and their wives took they captive, and spoiled even all that was in the house.

 

[Tyrathca]

​

Have you read this story? It's a beaut.

I'm not sure what is so good about that story. Mass slaughter of a people because one committed rape. No amle innocents at all in the city??

I think this story is much more interesting

(Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, “How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God’s curse.”

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, “Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we dest60royed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'” So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

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[Ben Masada]

​

Can you please describe the difference between what you mean by "evil" and "moral distortions" above? Thank you.

I am using "moral distortions" from Ecclesiastes 7:29. "God made man straight but he went through many wrong reasoning" aka distortions of his character.

 

[Bright Raven]

For comfort.

John 14:1-3 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Comforts His Disciples
14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

 

[Lilstu]

Psalm 19:1-2 KJV - Job 38:31-33 NIV -

It is absolutely impossible for this planet to exist and be so perfect for us without a divine Creator -

An Atheist would say man, animals, and plants evolved to be successful in the environmental conditions that existed. And why would anyone say the earth is perfect? Huge areas are deserts and not usable for agriculture. Earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters kill millions.
I think you need to prove there is a God to answer the question.

 

[Lilstu]

You are a sad man from down under. You probably like fumunda cheese

It has been many years since I heard of that cheese.

 

[Lilstu]

Why Believe in God!

Well, at least because we cannot explain what or who caused the universe to exist.

Good point.
Yesterday I was working on some "riddles" and sometimes I didn't "get it" because I did not perceive all the possible solutions.

 

[Lilstu]

I guess we'll find out AFTER we die, huh? Do you believe that we die and that's it? No more knowing anything or afterlife of any kind?

Ecclesiastes 9:2-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
2 It is the same for all. There is one fate for the righteous and for the wicked; for the good, for the clean and for the unclean; for the man who offers a sacrifice and for the one who does not sacrifice. As the good man is, so is the sinner; as the swearer is, so is the one who is afraid to swear. 3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one fate for all men. Furthermore, the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterwards they go to the dead. 4 For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

 

[Lilstu]

How can we prove the existence of God if He is invisible to us?

Do you believe in atoms and electrons? Ever see any?

 

[patrick jane]

An Atheist would say man, animals, and plants evolved to be successful in the environmental conditions that existed. And why would anyone say the earth is perfect? Huge areas are deserts and not usable for agriculture. Earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters kill millions.
I think you need to prove there is a God to answer the question.

The earth is perfect for abundant life, no other planets like earth exist. I don't have to prove there is God, the Holy Bible confirms it.

 

[quip]

The earth is perfect for abundant life, no other planets like earth exist. I don't have to prove there is God, the Holy Bible confirms it.

You do understand the concept of circular reasoning...yes?

 

[Lilstu]

The earth is perfect for abundant life, no other planets like earth exist. I don't have to prove there is God, the Holy Bible confirms it.

Right this minute a category 4 hurricane is headed for Jamaica, Cuba, the Bahamas, and maybe even Florida.
There will certainly be casualties. Is this perfection?

 

[patrick jane]

Right this minute a category 4 hurricane is headed for Jamaica, Cuba, the Bahamas, and maybe even Florida.
There will certainly be casualties. Is this perfection?

Strawman - You should obviously know that I'm talking about the overall aspects of the planet i.e., distance from the sun and moon, the moon itself, life abundant etc. I'm not talking about natural disasters. Do you think life should be a bowl of cherries?

 

[Lilstu]

Strawman - You should obviously know that I'm talking about the overall aspects of the planet i.e., distance from the sun and moon, the moon itself, life abundant etc. I'm not talking about natural disasters. Do you think life should be a bowl of cherries?

Why not perfection? Don't you try to make things safe for those you love?

 

[patrick jane]

Why not perfection? Don't you try to make things safe for those you love?

Thanks Lil stu

 

[6days]

Right this minute a category 4 hurricane is headed for Jamaica, Cuba, the Bahamas, and maybe even Florida.
There will certainly be casualties. Is this perfection?

We no longer live in perfect creation..... "All creation groans".
Rom. 8:21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time.

 

[6days]

An Atheist would say man, animals, and plants evolved to be successful in the environmental conditions that existed.

An atheist would also say that everything might have come from nothing and that life came from non life. God's Word provides a more scientific and logical explanation... In the beginning, God created.

 

[Tyrathca]

An atheist would also say that everything might have come from nothing and that life came from non life. God's Word provides a more scientific and logical explanation... In the beginning, God created.

If it is so scientific how come such a hypothesis has never contributed any meaningful falsifiable predictions or contributions to science? You've had about as much impact on science as homeopathy.

Your core argument is that your right because you're obviously right. Not very compelling.

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