Who's Really Saved?

J

JonathanSpires

New member
Hi,

It's a privilege to be a part of this community and have the opportunity to explore your personal thoughts on Word and ways of God. I have a question regarding the Theological Principle of Salvation. Please answer with consideration and evidence of the scriptures. I can not accept an answer that is not hermeneutically sound.

My question in regards to salvation:

How can you tell if someone is living in salvation?(if they're saved)
For an example,if you're walking down the street and you meet someone and begin a conversation, from that conversation what tools of discernment can you use to determine whether this person is living in salvation or not?

Jonathan
 
Tambora

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Give us your answer so we can see if yours is hermeneutically sound.
 
J

JonathanSpires

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I don't have a full answer which is my reason for posting. However, I can start with the words of Christ in Mt. 7 "by their works you shall know them". In regards to a man's deeds you can tell where their values are.
I wonder though, and maybe someone with a larger knowledge and understanding base of the scriptures than I can answer;
How can we discern who is living in salvation without watching or knowing of their deeds? After all what man knows all the deeds of the next?...
 
Tambora

Tambora

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Since all have sinned, salvation cannot be based on what you do.


Romans 5:8-9 KJV​
(8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.​




Since Christ died for us while we were sinners, it cannot be on the basis of our deeds because our deeds include sinning.



Romans 5:18 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.​


If you are relying on any of your own righteousness, you are relying on the wrong one.
 
J

JonathanSpires

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Thank you for an answer, but your answer ignores the principle of repentance of dead works.
Where I would agree that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, I can not say that "salvation cannot be based on what you do." Rather salvation can be based on the deeds you've done according to your repentance.

Our repentance of bad deeds can grant us salvation. Christ's servant, the apostle Peter, stands on the day of pentecost saying "...repent, and be baptized every one of you for the remission of your sins..." Acts 2.38 and God promises Solomon salvation to all who repent and turn from their wicked ways in 2 Chron. 7.14.

I do believe our deeds play a large role in our salvation. If not, and your premise that our salvation is justified by Christ's blood alone, why not relish in lust and divers temptations until death takes us and we become saved by Christ's blood?

No. we too must sacrifice in our deeds. What we choose to and not to do matters in the end judgement.

My question though still remains unanswered.

Without knowledge of these deeds how can we tell who is walking and living in salvation, which is a process not just a singular deed or ritual such as crucifixion?


It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being!
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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JonathanSpires said:
I don't have a full answer which is my reason for posting. However, I can start with the words of Christ in Mt. 7 "by their works you shall know them". In regards to a man's deeds you can tell where their values are.
I wonder though, and maybe someone with a larger knowledge and understanding base of the scriptures than I can answer;
How can we discern who is living in salvation without watching or knowing of their deeds? After all what man knows all the deeds of the next?...
Click to expand...
It doesn't take long to know if someone walks in the spirit and is saved. The words they speak and their actions and behavior tells us. Take me for instance, I'm so saved I can barely contain myself !!!
 
Tambora

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JonathanSpires said:
I do believe our deeds play a large role in our salvation.
Click to expand...
You will have no luck in that.
Scripture has already told you that it is by the righteousness of one.

It is not the righteousness of two combined (you plus Christ).
It is the righteousness of one.



If not, and your premise that our salvation is justified by Christ's blood alone, why not relish in lust and divers temptations until death takes us and we become saved by Christ's blood?
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter how big or small your sins are. ANY sin will deem you guilty of the whole law. (James 2:10).

All your own righteousness is as a filthy rag.
You cannot rest upon your own righteousness, it just ain't good enough because you are not 100% sinless.

No. we too must sacrifice in our deeds. What we choose to and not to do matters in the end judgement.
Click to expand...
Nothing of your own deeds can bring you salvation of eternal life.
The sacrifice must be spotless (no sin at all).
Sorry bud, but your life has not been spotless.

The whole law taught that a sinless substitute would cover your sins.
You and all your deeds do not add up to "sinless".











My question though still remains unanswered.
Click to expand...
Your question is answered by scripture.

Romans 5:18 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.



Without knowledge of these deeds how can we tell who is walking and living in salvation, which is a process not just a singular deed or ritual such as crucifixion?
Click to expand...
Right, not a singlular deed, but a singular one's deeds.
*HINT* That one ain't you.


It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being!
Click to expand...
Him the one.
It is not the combination or your righteousness PLUS the righteousness of Christ.
It is the righteousness of one only.
And again, that one ain't you.

Quit looking at your own righteousness for your salvation, and rely on the only sinless one.
 
J

JonathanSpires

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These commands, that of James and even that of Christ, to classify by speech and deeds who is saved and who is not can be applied in religious settings and perhaps a few social settings(family gatherings) where more information is known about those present. However there are many settings where the works and words of one can not be an accurate indication of their spiritual dispensation.

I give you:
Barak Obama who had said many things that were attractive to the church mainly because they lined up with SOME theological principals. But he has entertained and in some ways endorsed many things that are direct offenses to The Word.
Another example would be a man who says he is saved, but performs no other deed of salvation than saying he saved. Instead he says he's saved and lives everyday in the same lustful temptations as any other non-saved individual.
Or the woman who says she's saved, can argue The Word, but simply watches the justices and injustices of the world without ever participating.

What do you think a five minute conversation would yield from each of these examples? Could you conclude from "hello" to "goodbye" whether they were saved or not? What knowledge did Moses David have of Bathsheba's salvation? Or Deborah's of Barak's? Or Ruth's of Boaz's? And on and on.

My question is, what method does God lay out for us to use to discern salvation or lack thereof on another?


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
 
J

JonathanSpires

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We all should look to Christ for our salvation, everyday. Paul says "I die daily" lest he fall into those divers temptations James speaks to. Christ did not hang on the cross for us to do nothing about it our own wretched judgements and thoughts. Your argument that our deeds, sins and repentings alike, mean nothing imply we can do whatever we want and count on Christ's blood to save us a spot in eternal glory. Please address this implication.


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
 
Tambora

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JonathanSpires said:
We all should look to Christ for our salvation, everyday.
Click to expand...
Yep.
And why is that?
Because Christ is the only sinless substitute there is.



Christ did not hang on the cross for us to do nothing about it
Click to expand...
Christ died on the cross because YOU being there wouldn't have accomplished squat.
 
J

JonathanSpires

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So you believe that the scriptures tell us that no matter what we do in this life, we will all be saved from the second death because Christ died on the cross?


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
 
Tambora

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JonathanSpires said:
Instead he says he's saved and lives everyday in the same lustful temptations as any other non-saved individual.
Click to expand...
As does everyone since no one is sinless.

If you want to be judged by your righteousness, you have already failed because you have sinned.
Every single little deed you do and every single little thought you have comes into play, not just the 'big ones'.
Your filthy is not washed away by you doing some righteous deeds.
Your filth is washed clean by the blood of one, and only one.

You ask that we look to the deeds of others.
I say look to the deeds of Christ only for salvation.
 
WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

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You may find this helpful, what a very fine minister once suggested. There is a series of tests in 1 John that we can use to examine ourselves and our faith. As we look at them, remember that no one will perfectly fulfill all of them all the time, but they should reveal a consistent trend that characterizes our lives as we grow in grace.

1. Do you enjoy having fellowship with Christ and His redeemed people? (1 John 1:3)
2. Would people say you walk in the light, or walk in the darkness? (1 John 1:6-7)
3. Do you admit and confess your sin? (1 John 1:8)
4. Are you obedient to God's Word? (1 John 2:3-5)
5. Does your life indicate you love God rather than the world? (1 John 2:15)
6. Is your life characterized by "doing what is right"? (1 John 2:29)
7. Do you seek to maintain a pure life? (1 John 3:3)
8. Do you see a decreasing pattern of sin in your life? (1 John 3:5-6) [Note: this refers to not continuing in sin as a way of life, not a total absence of sin.]
9. Do you demonstrate love for other Christians? (1 John 3:14)
10. Do you "walk the walk," versus just "talking the talk"? (1 John 3:18-19)
11. Do you maintain a clear conscience? (1 John 3:21)
12. Do you experience victory in your Christian walk? (1 John 5:4)

I'd add a question, "Are you watching for and eagerly looking for the return of the Lord for His bride?" 1 Thessalonians 5:2-6, 2 Timothy 4:8, Titus 2:11-13

If you are able to truthfully answer "Yes" to these questions (or a majority of them, and are working on the others), then your life is bearing the fruit of true salvation.

The Lord Jesus said that it is by our fruits that we are known as His disciples (Matthew 7:20). Fruitless branches—professing believers who do not display the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) are cut off and thrown into the fire (John 15:6). A genuine faith is one that not only believes in God (the devils themselves do that, James 2:19), but leads to open confession of sin and obedience to Christ's commands. Remember, we are saved by grace through faith, not by our works (Ephesians 2:8-9), but our works should display the reality of our salvation (James 2:17-18). Genuine saving faith will always produce works: a faith that is perpetually without works is no faith at all and saves no one.
 
L

Lilstu

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The wage of sin is death.
If you have been saved from sin and death and you are still alive....then you haven't been saved yet.
 
J

JonathanSpires

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Your filth is washed away not only by Christ's blood. You're absolutely wrong there. I agree we need that One's blood, but you need to study and understand sacrifice in order to fully understand the purpose and power of the blood.

Look at the the Mosaic law of sacrifices. Jesus became the sacrificial lamb, thus eliminating the need for any animal or grain or tangible sacrifices. Hence Paul condemns the Jews in Heb. 6.6 for crucifying again Christ to themselves when they return to old sins.

When Christ blood was shed it was for a placeholder for all tangible sacrifices past, present, and future. Yet, as we see in the Old Testament law and the fulfillment of the law in the New Testament, the doctrine of sacrifice involves more than the shedding of blood. Therefore, salvation comes by more than the shedding of blood.

If Christ's shedding of blood is enough for me to be saved, do I need to be baptized? Do I need to confess him to be Lord? Do I need to pray?


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
 
J

JonathanSpires

New member
So [MENTION=18573]Lilstu[/MENTION], no one then is saved? What then is eternal life?


[emoji119]?It is through Him that we live, move, and have our being![emoji119]?
 
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