ECT Who is saved?

glorydaz

Well-known member
No one will be filled with the Holy Spirit until they do what Jesus says and he says to do more than just believe.

You missed the Good News? All that time reading the Bible and you still haven't found it? :doh:

Paul was the pattern for being saved by Grace. No repenting, no water baptism, no confessing of sins, no obeying the commandments. Just GRACE....PURE AND SIMPLE GRACE. A free GIFT.

"BELIEVE ON HIM to life everlasting". Did you miss that? I can't believe you missed that.

Paul is very clear, and he received it directly from our risen glorified Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
 

God's Truth

New member
You poor thing. You still don't know the Good News.

And here our Lord went to all that trouble revealing these things to the Apostle Paul. :sigh:

Jesus revealed the same message to Paul that Jesus taught the other apostles.

Repent aloud to God in the name of Jesus for preaching that, and see what happens, what do you have to lose?
 

God's Truth

New member
You missed the Good News? All that time reading the Bible and you still haven't found it? :doh:

Paul was the pattern for being saved by Grace. No repenting, no water baptism, no confessing of sins, no obeying the commandments. Just GRACE....PURE AND SIMPLE GRACE. A free GIFT.

"BELIEVE ON HIM to life everlasting". Did you miss that? I can't believe you missed that.

Paul is very clear, and he received it directly from our risen glorified Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Jesus taught everlasting life.

Paul repented and taught others to repent.

Paul was water baptized and had to obey Jesus before he was saved.
 

turbosixx

New member
Don't you find this wording strange:
Acts 2:47 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

"Such as should be saved"? It's clearly looking to the future.

I've thought about this overnight. Are you implying souls added to the church were not saved?


Paul uses the same Greek word here:
1 Cor. 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. ESV

Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.ESV
 

turbosixx

New member
In the prophets of Israel.

The Messiah was no mystery hid in God.

This isn't adding up for me. The gospel that can save was preached by the prophets? Please clarify.


16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
 

Danoh

New member
I've thought about this overnight. Are you implying souls added to the church were not saved?


Paul uses the same Greek word here:
1 Cor. 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. ESV

Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.ESV

He and some of his pals on here do not hold the assembly at Jerusalem was saved but have to wait for their salvation when the Lord returns.

They hybrid or confuse Israel's yet future National salvation, with each Israelite's personal, individual salvation.

So he reads said bias into passages like that one.

But the thing is referring to the present result of a past action.

Fact is, the word "should" has different uses, and one of them is the issue of a present result being the result of a past action on someone's part.

Further, the fact of the matter is that that phrase is in the KJV an earlier form of asserting that:

Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

What it it is relating is the continuing daily growth of their assembly due to the Lord's adding to it those who were being saved, in other words; those who were believing.

It is saying He was adding new saved people to their assembly, daily.

But it is saying that in an Earlier form of Modern English, and that; a translation of how the thing was expressed even further back to some 1,500 years earlier.

Even in the more modern "translations" the sense will tend to end up a bit complicated - because the translation is still a translation of a way of saying a thing some 2,000 years ago.

Thus, the "were being saved" relates, or points back to the idea that more and more converts were being "added to their number day by day."

In other words, people were being saved - new converts were being added - to their growing number...daily.

Which is what Rules of Grammar are for: for following said rules towards getting at the proper sense.

As James would later note...

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

And then you have to other kind of incompetent. The person who claims the Spirit gives them their understanding of the passages.

Never mind the many who claim that who each nevertheless end up at anything but on the same page with one another.

As if the Spirit Himself did not follow the rules of grammar He expected those He gave His Words to write down to follow.

Joshua 24:26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.

Nehemiah 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

8:12 And all the people went their way to eat, and to drink, and to send portions, and to make great mirth, because they had understood the words that were declared unto them.

Nope, some of the called "MADs" on here continue to prove highly suspect in their actual understanding of the most basic of role of the rules of grammar in both the ccommunication, and the inderstanding of intended sense, through said rules.

Even as they ridicule others about their grammar and or understanding...

Rom. 5:8.
 
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turbosixx

New member
Thus, the "were being saved" relates, or points back to the idea that more and more converts were being "added to their number day by day."

In other words, people were being saved - new converts were being added - to their growing number...daily.

That's how I understand it.
Before Jesus' death he said he would build his church, future tense. Then we see after his death, burial and resurrection people were added to it.

Never mind the many who claim that who each nevertheless end up at anything but on the same page with one another.

I agree.
Thanks for he input.
 

turbosixx

New member
Hi and read Acts 13:46 !!

In Acts 18:5 Paul was preaching , Jsus the Christ , and in other words JESUS SAVIOUR / CHRIST /MESSIAH !!

da p

Paul's sermon in Acts 13 is the same as Peters in Acts 2 so I would see that as the first time.
 

God's Truth

New member
Of course I'm going to use that scripture, because it's true. We, the body of Christ, get baptized BY the Holy Spirit into the body without one drop of water.

Turbosixx is wrong because he teaches that no one receives the Holy Spirit until they are water baptized, it is against the scriptures to say that.

Paul spoke of water baptism and we are to do it, whether we already received the Holy Spirit yet or not.

Paul says that he planted the seed and that Apollos watered it.

That is about Paul speaking the message and Apollos doing the baptizing.

1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow

Just because Paul did not do a lot of water baptisms does not mean he did not teach water baptism.

1 Corinthians 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.


Did you read that? Paul was speaking about water baptism.

Read what Paul says in the next two scriptures about water baptism:

Romans 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.


Paul is describing water baptism. The believer comes to make the pledge to God, to die to the sins of the world; so now standing in the water the believer falls back, as if dead; then, the believer goes under the water, buried; then, the believer rises up out of the water, raises up to live a new life.

We were "buried" with him through BAPTISM into death and RAISED from the dead...raised to live through Christ.


1 Peter 3:20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

That scripture does say water baptism is a symbol. Read how Peter says Noah and his family were saved through water, and that this water (the water of baptism that Christians do) is symbolic of the baptism (of the Spirit) that now saves you.

That scripture does say water baptism is a symbol. Read how Peter says Noah and his family were saved through water, and that this water (the water of baptism that Christians do) is symbolic of the baptism (of the Spirit) that now saves you. IT IS A PLEDGE to God.

Paul spoke about the water in the sea and the cloud concerning the time with Moses, and Peter speaks of the time of water with Noah. The water of the Christians time is water baptism. It is literal water about something SYMBOLIC.

You do know that God makes His will known progressively, right? Water baptism is completely and totally related to Israel and their priesthood.

Nonsense with no grounds.

Acts 1-5 is completely and totally related to Israel. I know that you and millions of others want to be a part of that and drag it into what God is doing today, but it's not what God is doing today.

If you really believed that you'd sell all that you have and live communally with those people, just like those in Acts 2.
You claim we are not supposed to obey ANYTHING that Jesus says when he walked the earth.

And, Jesus doesn't tell everyone they have to sell all they have to be saved.

You have no understanding because you obey nothing.

Don't you find this wording strange:
Acts 2:47 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

"Such as should be saved"? It's clearly looking to the future.
They should be saved and were because they do right and fear God and they believe. That is why they should be, AND WERE saved.

Utter nonsense to say they would be saved in another time after all the Gentiles are being saved.

Once again.... wrong dispensation of God.


Once again.... wrong dispensation of God.

That is you.
 

God's Truth

New member
In the prophets of Israel.

The Messiah was no mystery hid in God.

Why would it have been a mystery to the GENTILES?!

The Gentiles were WITHOUT God in the world. See Ephesians 2:12.

The Old Testament was many prophecies about what was coming. The New Testament are prophecies revealed.

The New Testament teachings were by letter and books right from the beginning. In 1 Timothy 5:18 Paul joins a New Testament scripture (Luke 10:7) to an Old Testament scripture (Deuteronomy 25:4) and calls them both scripture. In addition, we can see in 2 Peter 3:15-16 Peter recognizes what Paul writes as scripture.


Did you read that? PAUL JOINS a NEW TESTAMENT scripture with the old. You said Paul taught a different gospel. NO. Paul taught the OLD REVEALED.

Paul preaches to the GENTILES OVER 106 old testament scriptures, to the Gentiles! As if it was written to them, and it was! They just did not have it to them until Jesus' body joined them to it.

You said the Jews already knew. Listen to what Peter says:

2 Peter 1:19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Why would he say that about the message if it was already all known before?
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You missed the Good News? All that time reading the Bible and you still haven't found it? :doh:

Paul was the pattern for being saved by Grace. No repenting, no water baptism, no confessing of sins, no obeying the commandments. Just GRACE....PURE AND SIMPLE GRACE. A free GIFT.

"BELIEVE ON HIM to life everlasting". Did you miss that? I can't believe you missed that.

Paul is very clear, and he received it directly from our risen glorified Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Some folks just don't want to believe His grace is sufficient (2 Cor 12:9), and they keep wanting to add their own works.
 

turbosixx

New member
That scripture does say water baptism is a symbol. Read how Peter says Noah and his family were saved through water, and that this water (the water of baptism that Christians do) is symbolic of the baptism (of the Spirit) that now saves you. IT IS A PLEDGE to God.

I would suggest you're adding the Spirit, he is only talking about water.

I believe this is how the verse goes.
In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water (this water being the flood water that saved eight people) symbolizes ( the water of) baptism that now saves you also — (then he clarifies it's not the body getting wet but being baptized is a pledge) not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It (baptism) saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (just as you pointed out in Rom. 6 water baptism is dying with Christ and sharing in his resurrection.) Rom. 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.


If going through the water of baptism doesn't save us, why is Peter using an example of people saved through water to prove his point?
 
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musterion

Well-known member
Some folks just don't want to believe His grace is sufficient (2 Cor 12:9), and they keep wanting to add their own works.

Barna did a poll last year where only 28% of Americans strongly disagreed that, "Good works result in going to heaven." 69% disagreed somewhat, agreed somewhat or strongly agreed.

TOL has greater than 69%, I'd bet.
 

Danoh

New member
I would suggest you're adding the Spirit, he is only talking about water.

I believe this is how the verse goes.
In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water (this water being the flood water that saved eight people) symbolizes ( the water of) baptism that now saves you also — (then he clarifies it's not the body getting wet but being baptized is a pledge) not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It (baptism) saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (just as you pointed out in Rom. 6 water baptism is dying with Christ and sharing in his resurrection.) Rom. 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.


If going through the water of baptism doesn't save us, why is Peter using an example of people saved through water to prove his point?

You're both confused - those passages say nothing of what you two are each reading INTO them.

Rom. 5:8
 

Faither

BANNED
Banned
Some folks just don't want to believe His grace is sufficient (2 Cor 12:9), and they keep wanting to add their own works.

There is no such thing as "believing " in Gods Word to recieve the Spirit of Christ.

But just for fun , explain to me how "believing" escapes the "works" category. "Believing" is something you do with an expectation of something in return , correct?
 

musterion

Well-known member
But just for fun , explain to me how "believing" escapes the "works" category. "Believing" is something you do with an expectation of something in return , correct?

1. Because Paul said to believe on Christ is how one is saved today, and also

2. Paul said that salvation is not of works.

Ergo, believing is not, and cannot be, a work.

Really simple when you set aside your agenda and just believe what it says.
 
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