Who is Bob Enyart?
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Zak, what is your drink of choice (zymurgy)? Do you make your own, and is it not easier to go out and buy a better quality?
Do you think the Bible forbids drinking alcohol? teaches abstinence? or condemns drunkenness? What principle does it teach if none of the above?
Do you think the Bible forbids drinking alcohol? teaches abstinence? or condemns drunkenness? What principle does it teach if none of the above?
SOTK
New member
Re: Why I no longer support Bob
Re: Why I no longer support Bob
Yeah, I did see your post in the other thread and understand where you are coming from now. I think your position is fair. I read the first Chapter myself, and as you know, completely disagree with it myself. If fact, I find the book, at least the first chapter, very disturbing indeed. I don't want to judge Enyart too harshly since I don't know enough about him to do so, however, his apparent support of this book does cause one pause. It is beyond me why anybody, even more so a Christian, would entertain such ugly child disciplining techniques.
I'd be interested in hearing his justification for supporting such a book. If you decide to ask him, I'd be curious to find out his reasons for supporting it.
SOTK
Re: Why I no longer support Bob
Yeah, I did see your post in the other thread and understand where you are coming from now. I think your position is fair. I read the first Chapter myself, and as you know, completely disagree with it myself. If fact, I find the book, at least the first chapter, very disturbing indeed. I don't want to judge Enyart too harshly since I don't know enough about him to do so, however, his apparent support of this book does cause one pause. It is beyond me why anybody, even more so a Christian, would entertain such ugly child disciplining techniques.
I'd be interested in hearing his justification for supporting such a book. If you decide to ask him, I'd be curious to find out his reasons for supporting it.
SOTK
Zakath
Resident Atheist
Guinness! Nectar of the Irish Celtic deities. :cheers:
Yes. And wash your mouth out with soap, or your hands since you typed such heresy!
It's not a question of "easier" it's a question of "right". Storebought is what you drink when you don't have homebrew.
No
No I believe it teaches abstinence from drunkeness, not abstinence from beverages.
After his performance at that wedding party in Cana, Jesus of Nazareth would be welcome at any party of mine. :thumb:
1Way
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frugalmom and SOTK
frugalmom said
Frugalmom, does Bob Enyart ask us to accept a teaching him or anyone else without sufficiently verifying it? He consistently says that he is fallible and humbly asks us to hold him accountable. So since you find him to be such a godly man in terms of his bible teachings, I hope you will take the opportunity to verify his views on the matter prior to judging too much. As to "striking a baby", and "torture" goes, I think these are clearly an exaggeration of the case.
I have not read this chapter, did you say it is posted somewhere?
frugalmom said
SOTK said
Bob is a very gracious and forthcoming man, I'm sure he would be happy to have you two call in on his show (or just after your show) and challenge or ask him about all this stuff. Certainly if we are not careful, some things in God's word that is attributed to God is beyond upsetting and gruesome, ,,, right? Yet we honor it as we should, especially after we understand the justification for certain harsh punishments. I admit that your descriptions give me pause, but I've heard some of Enyart's views on child discipline, so I feel confident that this could be well resolved. I encourage you both to call in and set up a time when you all can get together and go over these issues.
Frugalmom, does Bob Enyart ask us to accept a teaching him or anyone else without sufficiently verifying it? He consistently says that he is fallible and humbly asks us to hold him accountable. So since you find him to be such a godly man in terms of his bible teachings, I hope you will take the opportunity to verify his views on the matter prior to judging too much. As to "striking a baby", and "torture" goes, I think these are clearly an exaggeration of the case.
I have not read this chapter, did you say it is posted somewhere?
1Way
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Clete - Not that you must keep track of these things, but frugalmom's list quote has me wanting to add more people. Off the top of my head, I'd say the list needs GodIsTruth, Acts9_12Out, Yorzhik, Shimei, ApologeticJedi and "perhaps" (?) drbrumley (?).
Who is the list holder, lightson made a list, and there are several lists some with accumulated add ins and others that differ somewhat depending upon when it was quoted.
I find this list very interesting and I would really like to be able to have contact with fellow believers for various reasons. As it is right now, I have to manually scan dozens of pages in order to find this list. (Bummer)
Would you please adopt a searchable and reliable term for this list, like "BELsupporters" or "Enyart supporters" or something that is reliably searchable and then always includes that term as a heading with the list, that way the list can be readily searched and referenced wherever it is. I like BELsupports all one word because it is unique and more inclusive and shorter in spelling than Enyart supports which is not as unique.
Who is the list holder, lightson made a list, and there are several lists some with accumulated add ins and others that differ somewhat depending upon when it was quoted.
I find this list very interesting and I would really like to be able to have contact with fellow believers for various reasons. As it is right now, I have to manually scan dozens of pages in order to find this list. (Bummer)
Would you please adopt a searchable and reliable term for this list, like "BELsupporters" or "Enyart supporters" or something that is reliably searchable and then always includes that term as a heading with the list, that way the list can be readily searched and referenced wherever it is. I like BELsupports all one word because it is unique and more inclusive and shorter in spelling than Enyart supports which is not as unique.
I have plenty of ideas as to what to label this list. I'm not interested in getting banned though. :angel:
Last time I used the term to describe someone under the pastorship of a pastor (shepherd), I found out that toughest of tough guys can become quite overly-sensitive.
Seriously though, I respect at least half of those on the list quoted. I look foward to reading their posts, and expect to learn something from them.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Well, I guess I'm on that list.
Do I support Bob Enyart? Yes I do. Do I agree with everything he has taught? No. But I will say this, despite what those who object to him say, is that he probably is the most gifted teacher I have had the privilege to come across. Bob Hill is right behind him. And thats because Bob Enyart has a show and can be heard to where Bob Hill can't. Sozo also is a gifted teacher. Ok, back to the subject, Bob Enyart was used by God to rekindle
my faith. And as a brother in Christ, I support him and will continue to support him.
Do I support Bob Enyart? Yes I do. Do I agree with everything he has taught? No. But I will say this, despite what those who object to him say, is that he probably is the most gifted teacher I have had the privilege to come across. Bob Hill is right behind him. And thats because Bob Enyart has a show and can be heard to where Bob Hill can't. Sozo also is a gifted teacher. Ok, back to the subject, Bob Enyart was used by God to rekindle
my faith. And as a brother in Christ, I support him and will continue to support him.
1Way
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Lucky
I wonder what sort of name you are thinking of. And what pray tell is keeping you off of a BEL supporter list? I scanned half this thread and don't remember you stipulating. I like the idea of a list not for the sake of identifying with a great teacher, but because of practical reasons of edification, personal support and fellowship. Knowing who's out there is especially nice to know when traveling for possibly hooking up with folks, and special requests that often likeminded brethren are best at networking with.
drbrumly
Wow, that is great to hear. Good to have you aboard.
The list continues to grow. :thumb:
I wonder what sort of name you are thinking of. And what pray tell is keeping you off of a BEL supporter list? I scanned half this thread and don't remember you stipulating. I like the idea of a list not for the sake of identifying with a great teacher, but because of practical reasons of edification, personal support and fellowship. Knowing who's out there is especially nice to know when traveling for possibly hooking up with folks, and special requests that often likeminded brethren are best at networking with.
drbrumly
Wow, that is great to hear. Good to have you aboard.
The list continues to grow. :thumb:
frugalmom
Night Elf
Yes, I knew why he went to jail, if you are referring to the five swats to the back side incident he talked about? (I believe this was an older child) I understood it was because he wouldn't plea bargain.
However, I did not know he endorsed spanking babies. Just reading the first chapter of that book made me sick! It was full of examples of spanking infants and comparing children to all kinds of animals.
For example, the Perls said they used a 12 inch switch on their 5 month old daughter's bare legs to try to keep her from climbing stairs, and admitted she didn't seem to understand why she was being spanked!
All I can say is that the most complete list is somewhere on this thread.
Once you find it, perhaps you'll repost it with the propper markers which will make it easier to find. It's unfortunate that no one thought of that many moons ago when this thread began!
frugalmom
Night Elf
Actually, I was hoping some of the DBC people might have some info on why he sells that book. I know that some of them post here. If he doesn't endorse the writing in the book then why does he sell it? I mean, he only sells a few books, so I assume he is familiar with the few books he sells.
I had thought about sending him a PM - I don't think he visits here that much though. I don't think calling him would be a good idea. Assuming he endorses the book he sells, first of all, he would never convince me that it's OK to spank a baby/child who doesn't even understand why it is being spanked. He would never convince me that it's OK to set up "training sessions" and "booty camp" for babies, where you purposely put a desirable object in the child's reach so you can then swat it when it tries to touch it. He would never convince me that it's OK to let a newborn cry just to try and prove to it that crying (which is their ONLY way of communication) is counterproductive. A newborn or an infant are not capable of understanding these things. They know they are hungry or need a clean diaper, and it's the parent's job to be there to take care of them, not to abandon them. And if he doesn't endorse it, then he shouldn't sell it. These were a few examples of the cruelty I read in the first chapter of the book.
Yes 1WAY, I did say there was a link where you can read it. Here it is. http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/index.php?id=11 There's a place toward the bottom you can click on to view it PDF.
Zakath
Resident Atheist
The way the legal system works in most states, one goes to jail because one is convicted of a crime and sentenced to jail time, not because one doesn't accept a plea bargain. Perhaps things are different in Colorado...
The biggest problem I had with the whole thing is that, according to what I read, it wasn't his kid[/b]. That and then he tried to turn the whole thing into a media circus to boost his ratings.
It would seem that some Christians are doing exactly what they condemn believers in evolution for allegedly doing... reducing people to little better than animals.However, I did not know he endorsed spanking babies. Just reading the first chapter of that book made me sick! It was full of examples of spanking infants and comparing children to all kinds of animals.
For example, the Perls said they used a 12 inch switch on their 5 month old daughter's bare legs to try to keep her from climbing stairs, and admitted she didn't seem to understand why she was being spanked!
As a psychologist, I found the text "interesting" in its continued use of the term "training" in place of "teaching". There is a specific difference between the two terms in education circles and I would be curious if the word is merely misused or if they are using it correctly on purpose... :think:
Look, I know that this book is a bit over the edge (at least in my view) but you are reading things into this book that simply are not there.
The fact of the matter is that babies, even newborn babies react to both positive and negative stimuli. And very, very young babies can learn what the word 'no' means if given a pain response to reinforce it.
That doesn't mean you beat the child for crying out loud! It simply means you swat the child’s hand hard enough for it to be unpleasant when you say 'no'. If you do that for about a day or maybe two consistently then you pretty much don't have to do it any more.
When my first born was just beginning to crawl, we blanket trained her. And yes I mean trained her. We set her on a blanket and set up situations that would make her want to get off the blanket and the moment her hand left the blanket we calmly said 'no' and swatted her hand. It took maybe three days and from that point on we could take her anywhere and it didn't matter who was there or what distraction came along to tempt her away from her blanket. We knew that she would stay on that blanket pretty much no matter what. We didn't have to worry about her pulling the drapes down or knocking over the nick-knacks on her grandmother's table. We didn't have to worry about her getting into something that might harm her or wandering off to some unknown place where we didn't know where she was. It completely relieved a mountain of stress that many, if not most parents have to deal with every single day. I didn't have to be saying "No, Tara" five hundred times a day and she didn't have to be miserable because she was constantly in trouble all the time. She stayed on her blanket and played and had a grand ol' time, laughing and giggling like an infant should. She was and still is to this day, the joy of what ever house hold she happens to be in. All because I and her mother were not afraid to cause her a little bit of pain in order that she learn to obey Mommy and Daddy.
You seem to have some big problem with setting up training sessions with your child as if it is just some excuse that parents like myself use to get to beat on our children or something. It's not that at all. Life will train your child if you don't, which do you think will be the more loving and tender? If you will set up situations in the safety of your own home where the child innately knows that it is loved and protected then not only will the child learn more quickly and completely but then you will not have to be attempting to teach your child a lesson while in the middle of the grocery store, which is embarrassing for you and much less effective for the child because I don't care how young they are, if they detect that they get their way at the grocery store because your too embarrassed to really do anything about it then you are going to LOVE buying groceries from now on!
Now, I happen to agree that this book does go a little far in some of the things they recommend, especially with of few of the things they do with toddlers but what they have to say about training infants is, frankly, the most effective are loving way to train up a child. Anything less is stressful to the max for the parent and down right harmful to the child. You might find it distasteful but I would wager that it is because you have read one too many parenting magazines and graduated from public school where anything Godly is belittled and shunned to the utmost. Not that your stupid or anything like that. I graduated from public school myself. It’s just that it occurs to me that your reaction is most likely born out of our culture more than anything else. A hundred years ago, this book would not even have raised an eyebrow. Everyone who read it would have just said, "Well, no duh! Isn't this the way everyone raises their kids?" Used to be, when a kid got a spanking, he remembered it for more than half an hour. Used to be that if a kid got a spanking, he didn’t need to get another one for a good long while, if ever. I would venture to say that if you raised you kids the way that the Pearl's recommend, that you would spank you kids about 1/10 as much as anyone else on your block and you would yell at them 1/1000 as much. Sounds pretty darn good to me.
I really strongly urge you to just call him! Call 1-888-8ENYART. Most likely his Mom will answer the phone, who, by the way, is just simply a wonderful lady to talk to. Ask her about it, she’ll tell ya. Or just tell that this is really bugging you and you would very much like to talk to Bob about it. I promise you that he’ll happily talk with you about it, on or off the air. Bob is simply the most gracious man I know. If you call him you will not be sorry you did.
Resting in Him,
Clete
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cur_deus_homo
New member
1 Corinthians 13:1Originally posted by 1Way
I'd say he's a great bible theologian/teacher.
And he is also great at; science, creationism, apologetics, philosophy, social activism, public speaking, TV and radio talk show hosting, world affairs, political satyr, live and written debates, authoring insightful books and teaching materials, doing bible seminars, discerning and expounding deep spiritual and philosophical issues, resolving complex and conflicting systems of belief, opposing evil, encouraging the saints, just to name a few.
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