ECT Which road are you on the narrow or the wide ?

[dodge]

@dodge doesn't understand the BOC

You really have your eyes closed wide open. Acts 2 and 4 say over 8000 were added to the church. Hello ! That would be the church of the Lord Jesus Christ you know the same faith Paul once sought to destroy. The same church ( BOC ) that Paul said others were in before him.

MAD has put you soundly to sleep,sadly.

 

[glorydaz]

No matter what I say, you will try to see wrong in it, and pick at it. So I'll just say that I'm simply trying to say that without God I can't do anything, I mention myself to show how much he's changed my heart. That's it, I'm sure you'll find something to pick at even in that!

By the way, I do talk about dying to self yes, but, we can't die to self without the power of the Holy Spirit to help us overcome.

I have no problem with your sharing your change of heart. It's when you accuse others of doing nothing when they speak of their peace, and rest, and trust in the Lord's work that I call you out.

Do you notice how you usually speak of what Jesus taught while He was in the flesh? Do me a favor and read this text and think about what it is saying.

2 Corinthians 5:15-17
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

 

[glorydaz]

You really have your eyes closed wide open. Acts 2 and 4 say over 8000 were added to the church. Hello ! That would be the church of the Lord Jesus Christ you know the same faith Paul once sought to destroy. The same church ( BOC ) that Paul said others were in before him.

MAD has put you soundly to sleep,sadly.

Of course it certainly can't be this same church, can it?

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

[dodge]

Of course it certainly can't be this same church, can it?

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

There aren't "churches" when it applies to Christ and those who are in His body there is only one "church".

1Co 12:12
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

There aren't "churches" when it applies to Christ and those who are in His body there is only one "church".

1Co 12:12
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

There was one "church in the wilderness", and that was not speaking of the body of Christ.

 

[marhig]

I have no problem with your sharing your change of heart. It's when you accuse others of doing nothing when they speak of their peace, and rest, and trust in the Lord's work that I call you out.

Do you notice how you usually speak of what Jesus taught while He was in the flesh? Do me a favor and read this text and think about what it is saying.

2 Corinthians 5:15-17
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

When we start saying that Jesus has done all the obeying, and has done it all for us and we don't have to do anything, then we are not listening to the truth.

I opened up at Romans 15 a couple of nights ago and Paul preached obedience in word and works. ( I'm talking about the works of God lived out to glorify God, not my works)

Romans 15

I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

And that gospel is the same gospel that Jesus preached in which we are to obey God and live by his will, deny ourselves take up our cross daily and truly follow Jesus and Christ by the Spirit will strengthen those who are willing to do this and help them to overcome the world and the works of the flesh.

And we won't receive true peace and rest unless by the grace of God we have entered into his rest and if we have truly entered into his rest then we will live by his will as Jesus did. Jesus said that those who enter into heaven are those who live by the will of the Father. Satan can blind us into thinking that we are ok and we don't have to do anything but that isn't the truth, those born of God become doers of the word and bare witness to the truth through Christ Jesus, by the power of the Spirit and they live to please the living God daily, putting him first in their lives every day and they care for others when they see the need.

Hebrews 4

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

1 Peter 4

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

And what do the emboldened parts of the verses you have quoted mean to you? Thanks

 

[glorydaz]

When we start saying that Jesus has done all the obeying, and has done it all for us and we don't have to do anything, then we are not listening to the truth.

I opened up at Romans 15 a couple of nights ago and Paul preached obedience in word and works. ( I'm talking about the works of God lived out to glorify God, not my works)

Romans 15

I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Paul is talking about his word (preaching the Gospel) and his works (mighty signs and wonders) wrought by the power of the Spirit. The obedience is that of faith.....believing the gospel Paul preached.

Paul is actually saying what I have been telling you. He doesn't even speak of those those things that God has not wrought through him. There is no speaking of "dying to self" because Paul was crucified with Christ when he believed and was saved.

Since you didn't understand what Paul was really saying, you then jumped back to what Christ preached while in the flesh. So, you missed the point, after all. :sigh:

 

[Tambora]

Paul is talking about his word (preaching the Gospel) and his works (mighty signs and wonders) wrought by the power of the Spirit. The obedience is that of faith.....believing the gospel Paul preached.

Paul is actually saying what I have been telling you. He doesn't even speak of those those things that God has not wrought through him. There is no speaking of "dying to self" because Paul was crucified with Christ when he believed and was saved.

Since you didn't understand what Paul was really saying, you then jumped back to what Christ preached while in the flesh. So, you missed the point, after all. :sigh:

AMEN!

Romans 10 KJV
(2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.(3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


They need to stop trying to establish their own righteousness, and submit to the righteousness of GOD.

 

[marhig]

Paul is talking about his word (preaching the Gospel) and his works (mighty signs and wonders) wrought by the power of the Spirit. The obedience is that of faith.....believing the gospel Paul preached.

Paul is actually saying what I have been telling you. He doesn't even speak of those those things that God has not wrought through him. There is no speaking of "dying to self" because Paul was crucified with Christ when he believed and was saved.

Since you didn't understand what Paul was really saying, you then jumped back to what Christ preached while in the flesh. So, you missed the point, after all. :sigh:

So there are works then? Wrought by the power of the Spirit? And that's exactly what I mean, without God we can't do anything. Is it because I talk about obeying God and living by his will? We still have freewill, Paul clearly tells us not to live by the flesh and to remain in Gods goodness. So we can go back if we let satan in when we are tempted GD.

Romans 11

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

And Paul did die to self, he died daily!

So many say they are saved, but it doesn't mean that they are, you will know those being saved as their will be more like Jesus, you'll see his life in and through them.

And don't you believe that the Holy Spirit was helping Paul to overcome his flesh, and wouldn't that be a mighty work of God?

And do you know what I mean by dying to self? Thanks

 

[glorydaz]

So there are works then? Wrought by the power of the Spirit? And that's exactly what I mean, without God we can't do anything.

REALLY? Are you sure that's exactly what you mean? Look again.

Paul is speaking of his ministry as an Apostle to the Gentiles. He is not talking about YOU or me.

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.​

Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,​

You need to be careful when reading your own understanding into what is written in Scripture.

Acts 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:​

 

[marhig]

REALLY? Are you sure that's exactly what you mean? Look again.

Paul is speaking of his ministry as an Apostle to the Gentiles. He is not talking about YOU or me.

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.​

Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,​

You need to be careful when reading your own understanding into what is written in Scripture.

Acts 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:​

Could God have done those things through Paul, if Paul put his flesh first and still lived by his own will or any of the others come to that?

And I keep saying, it's the works that God does in our hearts and we live them out, why do you keep changing what I say?

And do you know what I mean about dying to self? seeing as you keep bringing it up?

 

[glorydaz]

Romans 11

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

My goodness. Did you read that in context? Do you know Paul is speaking of an olive tree and being grafted onto it? :think:

And Paul did die to self, he died daily!

Paul wasn't talking about "dying to self". He was talking about being on the brink of death....dead in the flesh dead. Context is everything.

1 Cor. 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.​

So many say they are saved, but it doesn't mean that they are, you will know those being saved as their will be more like Jesus, you'll see his life in and through them.

You don't know what you're talking about. Literally. You just mouth one platitude after another.

And don't you believe that the Holy Spirit was helping Paul to overcome his flesh, and wouldn't that be a mighty work of God?

And do you know what I mean by dying to self? Thanks

Oh yes, I know exactly what you mean. You mean you are in the flesh and not in the Spirit. You are carnal. Wouldn't you like to understand what those verses you quote really mean? There are plenty of people on this site you can learn from if you really wanted to know.

 

[glorydaz]

Could God have done those things through Paul, if Paul put his flesh first and still lived by his own will or any of the others come to that?

And I keep saying, it's the works that God does in our hearts and we live them out, why do you keep changing what I say?

And do you know what I mean about dying to self? seeing as you keep bringing it up?

:doh:

 

[marhig]

My goodness. Did you read that in context? Do you know Paul is speaking of an olive tree and being grafted onto it? :think:




Paul wasn't talking about "dying to self". He was talking about being on the brink of death....dead in the flesh dead. Context is everything.

1 Cor. 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.​

You don't know what you're talking about. Literally. You just mouth one platitude after another.



Oh yes, I know exactly what you mean. You mean you are in the flesh and not in the Spirit. You are carnal. Wouldn't you like to understand what those verses you quote really mean? There are plenty of people on this site you can learn from if you really wanted to know.

How can you not see that we can be cut off of we don't remain in Gods goodness?

And Paul dying daily means means just that, he doesn't say he's at the brink of death daily but that he dies daily! That's totally different.

And now I can see you don't know what dying to self means from your last response.

 

[marhig]

:doh:

Doh? Why doh?

 

[glorydaz]

How can you not see that we can be cut off of we don't remain in Gods goodness?

You may glory about being in God's goodness (if you can remain there), but I have been created IN CHRIST JESUS. Where would your think you were safest?

And Paul dying daily means means just that, he doesn't say he's at the brink of death daily but that he dies daily! That's totally different.

You don't want to take the context into consideration then, do you? That's a shame because you'll end up deceiving yourself over and over again if that's the route you choose. The entire chapter is speaking of physical death. Paul never knew from one minute to the next if he would make it though another beating or near drowning. For God's sake.....read the chapter. Read what is written, not what you want it to say. AND read further. Learn to know Paul so you don't have to make up things you think he is saying.

2 Cor. 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. 24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.​

And now I can see you don't know what dying to self means from your last response.

And you should be able to see why my response to you can only be :doh:

 

[marhig]

You may glory about being in God's goodness (if you can remain there), but I have been created IN CHRIST JESUS. Where would your think you were safest?



You don't want to take the context into consideration then, do you? That's a shame because you'll end up deceiving yourself over and over again if that's the route you choose. The entire chapter is speaking of physical death. Paul never knew from one minute to the next if he would make it though another beating or near drowning. For God's sake.....read the chapter. Read what is written, not what you want it to say. AND read further. Learn to know Paul so you don't have to make up things you think he is saying.

2 Cor. 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. 24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.​

And you should be able to see why my response to you can only be :doh:

I'm safest in Gods goodness through Christ!

Did Paul naturally die often? What do you think death to self is? Have you ever heard of it? And I mean that sincerely.

And it's a shame that you have to resort to using words like doh when you talk to others about God.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm safest in Gods goodness through Christ!

Where do you find that choice?

Did Paul naturally die often? What do you think death to self is? Have you ever heard of it? And I mean that sincerely.

Of course I have. I started out in the Gospels just like you have. There's MORE.....

And it's a shame that you have to resort to using words like doh when you talk to others about God.

Yes, and it's a shame you refuse to listen to anything I say, which is why I make the forehead slap...I don't "use" the word "doh", though. See how you are? You aren't careful in what you say. I have to wonder why I bother talking to you at all.

When you talk about "dying to self", you claim it as something you must do (with God's help, of course). That's what was required before the cross and before the Comforter was sent to dwell in the believer.

I speak of being crucified with Christ. Was that possible before Christ was crucified? No, and when did Jesus speak of "dying to self"? Before He went to the cross? Yes, of course.

Doesn't that peak your interest? Aren't you curious to know how that relates to what Paul said here? Are you to "die daily" or have you been crucified with Christ? It's one or the other.

2 Cor. 5:16-17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

So, which is it?

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.​

 

[marhig]

Where do you find that choice?



Of course I have. I started out in the Gospels just like you have. There's MORE.....



Yes, and it's a shame you refuse to listen to anything I say, which is why I make the forehead slap...I don't "use" the word "doh", though. See how you are? You aren't careful in what you say. I have to wonder why I bother talking to you at all.

When you talk about "dying to self", you claim it as something you must do (with God's help, of course). That's what was required before the cross and before the Comforter was sent to dwell in the believer.

I speak of being crucified with Christ. Was that possible before Christ was crucified? No, and when did Jesus speak of "dying to self"? Before He went to the cross? Yes, of course.

Doesn't that peak your interest? Aren't you curious to know how that relates to what Paul said here? Are you to "die daily" or have you been crucified with Christ? It's one or the other.

2 Cor. 5:16-17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

So, which is it?

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.​

Dying to self is being crucified with Christ. You've said all that but you still don't seem to know what to die to self means?

And how do you believe that Paul knew Christ after the flesh, and then knows him no more?

I have been crucified with Christ. Conformed to his death by the power of his resurrection and I am in fellowship in his sufferings and I die daily through him by the power of the Spirit. This is to die to self and to be alive in God through faith, by the grace of God and by the righteousness of Christ which is made manifest in and through us by the power of the Holy Spirit!

Conformed to his death, Paul said that, not saying that Jesus has done it all for him, but that he was made conformable to is death. And he's not talking about the natural death of Christ Jesus, we can't be conformed to that death. We are to die to self, as Paul did.

Philippians 3

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:*That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;*If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

And if you find it so hard to talk to me, as you seem to be saying, then really you don't have to. You seem to think that only you are right about everything, yet you are looking at all things literally, Paul is speaking in the Spirit.

And the gospel that Jesus lived by and preached, is the gospel. And it's the gospel that Paul also lived by and preached. It's the gospel of God, and it is the only gospel there is.