So, that does not answer the question. Are we saved by grace through faith?
WHICH GENTILES ARE GRAFTED INTO THE OLIVE TREE
- Thread starter DougE
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So, that does not answer the question. Are we saved by grace through faith?
God's Truth
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So you are just going to dismiss the truth I speak.
I don't answer people according to their error.
according to your history of use of scripture you are found wanting...
in keeping us pure and Holy not in MAKING us justified or saved...and none of the shedding of blood ones...except in the clean meats to be eaten and to keep them clean to eat...not burn to save us
His Spirit yes...It is NOT our spirit as He loaned His to us...He ALONE is IMMORTAL...
is why we WANT to keep it Holy pure and clean...by making our bodies Holy pure and clean temples for It to reside...our minds as priests serving His law ...except you...you don’t...
The dead know nothing...can not praise Yah...
Body returns to dust...and the spirit returns to its Giver...and not to a PLACE...
It is now obvious that you do not believe Ephesians 2:8-9
God's Truth
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Why don't you explain what you think that scripture mean.
Does it mean we are not to repent of our sins or do anything to get saved?
It is very plain what it means. Don't you understand?
It all originates with the grace of God. He takes the initiative in providing it. Salvation is given to those who are utterly unworthy on the basis and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is given as a present possession. Those who are saved can know it. Paul said; You have been saved . He knew it and they knew it. The way we receive the gift of eternal life is through faith. Faith means that man takes his place as a lost sinner and receives the Lord Jesus as the only hope of salvation. Any idea that man can earn or deserve salvation is forever exploded by the words, and not of yourselves. It is the gift of God. A gift is a free and unconditional present. That is the only basis on which God offers salvation. The gift of God is salvation by grace through faith. It is offered to all people everywhere. Believers Bible Commentary
God's Truth
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The only time faith alone is mentioned in the KJV is to warn of what kind of faith not to have.
You have read Heb 11? Yes?
God's Truth
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What is the point you are trying to make? You start out dishonest and finish dishonest. You know I have read Hebrews and all the books of the Bible.
Just that maybe you haven't read Heb 11
because you say
"The only time faith alone is mentioned in the KJV is to warn of what kind of faith not to have."
and well Heb 11 says otherwise...MANY TIMES
and well Heb 11 says otherwise...MANY TIMES
God's Truth
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That is your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Faith alone is only mentioned once in the Bible.
Show the scripture that says FAITH ALONE in the KJV.
Let's discuss it.
The righteous live by faith Hab 2:4 everything else merely confirms that...from Who determines it...to how...and when...ALL by faith alone
God's Truth
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No such thing as faith without right action to get saved or to stay saved.
So why you accuse me of doing right action to stay saved...you know... works befitting repentance...
and yes there is faith without right action to get saved...
faith without “works to get saved” is the ONLY kind of faith which then the works come after the saving faith...
you just believe you are born to do things...no such thing as doing things to get yourself born
just like you merely believe you ARE re-born to do thing for Him ...no such thing as doing things for Him to get yourself re-born
God's Truth
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What?
Faith without right action is dead.
Faith without works to get saved is DEAD, and cannot save anyone.
lol So you can't do anything to get reborn, not even believe? You are a Calvinist now?
God's Truth
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clefty
James SAYS faith alone CANNOT SAVE ANYONE.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
No such a faith CAN save him.
Faith alone is dead, like a dead body to be buried.
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Faith alone without any right action does not save. Apostle James says such faith is DEAD.
Many denominations call that dead faith ‘saving faith’.
The only time ‘faith alone’ is mentioned in the Bible, it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
That “dead faith” is NOT the most important kind of faith ever known.
Faith alone without works is dead. Our faith must be alive. Faith with obedience is living faith, alive faith.
The works we do not have to do to justify ourselves is be circumcised, observe special days, and sacrifice animals. Those are the works that Paul is speaking about, but people misunderstand Paul to their destruction. What insanity it is to think Paul is rebuking people from obeying Jesus.
Abraham was saved by faith and obedience before circumcision. The scriptures say Abraham believed in and obeyed God, even before circumcision.
Abraham was not saved by faith alone because faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.
The scriptures say that Abraham obeyed.
I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws.” Genesis 26:4-5
James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James heard of this false teaching of faith alone, and that is why he tells the people it is foolish.
People were misunderstanding Paul.
Peter no doubt heard of this false teaching of faith alone too. Peter says people misunderstand Paul have problems such as their being unlearned and unstable.
Peter tells us that people misunderstand Paul. Right after Peter says that, he warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.
People misunderstand Paul about no works. Paul is speaking about no more works of the law, which are the purification/ceremonial works of the law.
The Jews had to make themselves clean just to go to the temple to worship God. Can you imagine having to do all the things the Jews used to have to do?
These things are called the works of the law. They are the purification/ceremonial works of the law:
The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.
Paul explains that we do not have to do those things anymore to be saved, because faith alone that Jesus’ blood cleans us is what cleans us; faith that his blood cleans us after we repent of our sins. No one has to work at cleaning themselves just to go to the temple to worship God anymore, because faith in Jesus’ blood makes us clean and we become the temple.
The Jews had the law with works to make themselves clean for many hundreds of years, about 1,600 years. Paul is explaining why the Jews do not have to do those works anymore. Paul is also explaining how the Gentiles who were EXCLUDED and without God in the world can now be saved without doing all those purification/ceremonial works…faith and no works of the law...faith and no ceremonial works save, not faith and no obeying.
Even the demons believe and do something, they shudder.
See James 2:19.
James SAYS faith alone CANNOT SAVE ANYONE.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
No such a faith CAN save him.
Faith alone is dead, like a dead body to be buried.
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Faith alone without any right action does not save. Apostle James says such faith is DEAD.
Many denominations call that dead faith ‘saving faith’.
The only time ‘faith alone’ is mentioned in the Bible, it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.
James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
That “dead faith” is NOT the most important kind of faith ever known.
Faith alone without works is dead. Our faith must be alive. Faith with obedience is living faith, alive faith.
The works we do not have to do to justify ourselves is be circumcised, observe special days, and sacrifice animals. Those are the works that Paul is speaking about, but people misunderstand Paul to their destruction. What insanity it is to think Paul is rebuking people from obeying Jesus.
Abraham was saved by faith and obedience before circumcision. The scriptures say Abraham believed in and obeyed God, even before circumcision.
Abraham was not saved by faith alone because faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.
The scriptures say that Abraham obeyed.
I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws.” Genesis 26:4-5
James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James heard of this false teaching of faith alone, and that is why he tells the people it is foolish.
People were misunderstanding Paul.
Peter no doubt heard of this false teaching of faith alone too. Peter says people misunderstand Paul have problems such as their being unlearned and unstable.
Peter tells us that people misunderstand Paul. Right after Peter says that, he warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.
People misunderstand Paul about no works. Paul is speaking about no more works of the law, which are the purification/ceremonial works of the law.
The Jews had to make themselves clean just to go to the temple to worship God. Can you imagine having to do all the things the Jews used to have to do?
These things are called the works of the law. They are the purification/ceremonial works of the law:
The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.
Paul explains that we do not have to do those things anymore to be saved, because faith alone that Jesus’ blood cleans us is what cleans us; faith that his blood cleans us after we repent of our sins. No one has to work at cleaning themselves just to go to the temple to worship God anymore, because faith in Jesus’ blood makes us clean and we become the temple.
The Jews had the law with works to make themselves clean for many hundreds of years, about 1,600 years. Paul is explaining why the Jews do not have to do those works anymore. Paul is also explaining how the Gentiles who were EXCLUDED and without God in the world can now be saved without doing all those purification/ceremonial works…faith and no works of the law...faith and no ceremonial works save, not faith and no obeying.
Even the demons believe and do something, they shudder.
See James 2:19.
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exactly...for most of this...
Once saved we do works...the works reveal our faith...bare fruit to our belief...
please note the progression....saved first we then do works...
notice faith comes first...like a baby being born alive and THEN breathing...eating etc...not breathing to become alive...
Right action is works He prepared for us to do...NOT your own “every day is Holy eat whatever never die”
getting saved is a gift of grace you did nothing...it was ALL done for you...you must believe you are re-born...and do accordingly just like that baby must DO in order to stay alive after it is born
believing it NOT a work in and of itself...nor is faith...what one does after is the issue...you make up NEW law...He says DO as He did...
Which you do NOT...
wow someone was kicking HARD against the Spirit last night...not sure I can give you all the attention you crave...
Ok so what did you do to get your parents together to make this JOY here in TOL...
You did nothing...what did you do to grown in your mom for 9 month? And still by instinct you took your first breath outside of her...you HAD to in order to STAY alive not become ALIVE
Same with faith relationship with Him...
YOU did NOTHING to get conceived saved but HAVE to breath do works and then more works to STAY ALIVE as with a relationship IN HIM...you do not do works to GET SAVED you do works because you WERE saved BEFORE you were ever born...but you HAVE to choose and believe and have faith you ARE reborn...just like when you were born...
never did any of this to be justified but because they already were saved
Abraham was 99 years old SAVED LONG BEFORE THIS and is WHY he allowed it to happen to him
never to be saved but because they were...Sabbath given before sin even...
because they were saved to stay saved...thank offerings
copy me as I copy Christ...Christ did Sabbath keeping and ate clean..
yup
yup he was chosen first and accepted that to THEN obey
Abram did NOTHING to earn his blessing...
AFTER he accepted his blessing...his faith was first
was said to Isaac...and he too was NOT born for anything he did or his parents...it was by DIVINE INTERVENTION that Isaac was born...and now must obey as his father did...who also DID NOTHING to earn his blessing...but by faith accepted
notice the order his obedience comes AFTER his faith...he did NOT do in order to achieve faith...just like Noah did NOT build the ark in order to achieve faith but having faith he built the boat
I agree faith compels works...not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet about this
You do not say that...you say you did works to be put into Him and are perfect now...
Sabbath is NOT one of these...baptism remains btw...
Yup no Nazarite vow in that copy pasta and Sabbath was instituted when all things were pure...and clean...and before sin...and in the 10 commandments
yup faith first
yup a clean holy pure temple...He showed us HOW...as if you wouldnt wash your hands after touching a dead anything...lol
you mean when he tells them to come back next Sabbath to hear more...celebrate the Passover with unleavened bread of spirit and truth...copy him AS he copied Christ...except for your list...lol...nope Here are they that keep the 10 commandments and the faith OF...is not signifying TWO groups as His FAITH KEEPS the LAW...
all that to still miss...”establish the Law...according to the WAY I worship as our fathers did...did NOTHING against the Law our customs”
do more than that...they continue their father of lies’ rebellion against Him and His ways...saying exactly as you do that His way is “NOT FOR ME”
Having made NEW law changing both His times and Law...you stand with those who shudder and will be shaken...