God's Truth
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Again, Ishmael is blood related and did not obey God's laws.
That would make him a Gentile by definition.
YOU SAID IT DOES. Now prove it with scripture.
Again, Ishmael is blood related and did not obey God's laws.
That would make him a Gentile by definition.
Ishmael is what his mother is
and his father was a Hebrew.
If that makes him a Gentile, then show it with scripture,
and show I SAID ISHMAEL WAS A JEW.
You said I said Ishmael was a Jew. Prove it that I spoke about Ishmael as a Jew or a Gentile.
You are the one who brought up Ishmael.
YOU SAID IT DOES. Now prove it with scripture.
This is you punting trying to avoid the issue altogether.
Was Hagar (Ishmael's mother) a Hebrew? Or was she a gentile?
:yawn:
Don't need to. Logically speaking, your position asserts that he is a Gentile.
You still want scriptures?
Fine. Just look at all the ones that define was Jews are, which you yourself have quoted in this very thread, and then try to apply them to Ishmael and his descendants. They don't apply to him, so therefore Ishmael is not a jew. Using the definition you provided, a non-Jew is a Gentile.
Well, no, no one said that you claimed Ishmael was a Jew.
In fact, we've been saying the opposite, that your own position establishes him as a GENTILE.
Why can't you just come out and say it plainly, to establish your position?
GT: Was Ishmael a Jew or a Gentile?
If you say he was a Gentile, then we agree, and there's no need to argue any further on this subject.
However, if you say that Ishmael was a Jew, that runs counter to your own position, which establishes him as a Gentile, which means that either (Only if we assume you answer that he is a Jew; if you don't answer that he's a Jew, then the rest of this doesn't apply) your position is contradictory with your answer, and you should reexamine your position to see where you start to contradict yourself.
:yawn:
Two simple questions you simply refuse, for whatever reason, to answer:
Do you, GT, consider Ishmael to be a Gentile?
Was Ishmael the son of Abram, and therefore blood-related to Abram?
Sorry, GT, that's not how logic works.
I don't have to prove something is "by definition" something else. It's called the Law of Identity.
Huh?
You said Ishmael was a Gentile, now prove it with scripture.
I gave scripture of the Samaritans who were blood related to Abraham, but they did not obey. They weren't called Gentiles, they were called Samaritans.
Now back up what you told me and I will believe it if you give scripture.
Huh?
You said Ishmael was a Gentile, now prove it with scripture.
I gave scripture of the Samaritans who were blood related to Abraham, but they did not obey. They weren't called Gentiles, they were called Samaritans.
Now back up what you told me and I will believe it if you give scripture.
You clearly didn't read what I posted.
Go read it again.
All of the scriptures that YOU have posted that define what a Jew is, those are my supporting verses. And because those verses do not apply to Ishmael, that, by definition, makes him a Gentile.
They were called Samaritans because they were from Samaria, a geographical location in the center of Israel. Neither of the terms "Jew" nor "Gentile" describe a geographical location. Your statement that they were Samaritans has nothing to do with whether they were Jew or Gentile.
From the Jews' perspective, they were Gentiles, because they were descendants of Jews who had married Gentiles.
From the Gentiles' perspective, they were Jews because they kept the law of moses to at least some extent.
Because of this, they were outcasts from BOTH groups. Again, being from Samaria has nothing to do with it.
:blabla:
Ishmael is NOT a Jew (descendant of ISRAEL)... therefore.... BY DEFINITION he is a gentile.
Prove it with scripture that he is a Gentile.
You as clueless as can be. You cannot think a single logical thought.
You aren't speaking according to the Word.
You know you can't prove with scripture that Ishmael is called a Gentile.
AND, more importantly, the thread was derailed all because I said a Jew was a person blood related to Abraham AND obeyed the law.
Ishmael is the father of the Arab nations. You think he is not a gentile.
Jews were people blood related to Abraham and obeyed the law.
A Gentile was someone not blood related to Abraham and did not obey the law.
Wrong again, as per your usual.You aren't speaking according to the Word.
The Bible says that Ishmael is not a Jew... therefore he is a gentile. That you cannot understand that is obvious.You know you can't prove with scripture that Ishmael is called a Gentile.
Then you should go back and EDIT your post where you say this:AND, more importantly, the thread was derailed all because I said a Jew was a person blood related to Abraham AND obeyed the law.
It is just as INCORRECT as the day that you posted it.GENTILES ARE NOT BLOOD RELATED to ABRAHAM.
Please show where scripture defines a Jew that way.Jews were people blood related to Abraham and obeyed the law.
You must LOVE to be WRONG.A Gentile was someone not blood related to Abraham and did not obey the law.
Ishmael was no better than a Samaritan. His mother was not a Jew even though Abraham was his Father. He was a halfbreed shunned by the Jews.
Wrong again, as per your usual.
The Bible says that Ishmael is not a Jew... therefore he is a gentile. That you cannot understand that is obvious.
Then you should go back and EDIT your post where you say this:
It is just as INCORRECT as the day that you posted it.
Please show where scripture defines a Jew that way.
You must LOVE to be WRONG.