Where Does The Bible Say...? (HOF thread)

Aimiel

Well-known member
The free gift of salvation is not what requires anything, in order to obtain it, but those who would enter into life must abandon this life, to gain the next. It is only seeking God with one's whole heart, even to the point of being put to death for one's faith in The Lord, should that test be granted (the greatest gift of all), that one can find The Lord. Without the seeking, there is no life, because one has chosen this life above the next. Either way, we are granted what we seek. If we seek life for our flesh, we lose our soul; but if we seek life eternal, it is granted, without price.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by Aimiel

The free gift of salvation is not what requires anything, in order to obtain it...
So far, so good. "Free" doesn't require anything in exchange...

...but those who would enter into life must abandon this life, to gain the next. It is only seeking God with one's whole heart, even to the point of being put to death for one's faith in The Lord, should that test be granted (the greatest gift of all), that one can find The Lord. Without the seeking, there is no life, because one has chosen this life above the next. Either way, we are granted what we seek. If we seek life for our flesh, we lose our soul; but if we seek life eternal, it is granted, without price.
Those who would acquire this "free gift" must...

  • ... "abandon this life"
    ... "seek God with one's whole heart"
    ... be willing to be "put to death for one's faith"
    ... not to seek "life for our flesh"
    ... "seek life eternal"

IF one must be so busy to obtain it, it sounds like the "free gift" isn't really "free" at all... :think:
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Commenting On Romans 10:9

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Commenting On Romans 10:9

Originally posted by JustAChristian

Then you don't follow the instruction of Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:18-20; 2 Tim. 3:15-16).

If baptism is a work, is it a work of merit or of obedience? If you were immersed at an earlier date for some reson, did you wish to affect the results of your baptism for reasons of merit or obedience to Christ?

JustAChristian :angel:
Neither. I did it as a confession of my faith, a statement to others. Iwas young, and didn't know that much about the Bible's actual teachings.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Re: HOW DO YOU VIEW THE BIBLE?

Re: HOW DO YOU VIEW THE BIBLE?

Originally posted by JustAChristian

There are some things one needs to carefully consider as one engages in the study of the Bible. This book which we are studying is no ordinary book. It may affect us in one of two ways: properly studied and applied, it well affect us for good in time and eternity; the improper study of it will cause one to lose one’s soul.
:duh:

The Bible is every man’s book. It is not intended for some special group. But not only is the Bible every man’s book, it is written for the average person. Scholars may study it, but it is not written necessarily with scholars in mind.
really? I never would have guessed :rolleyes:

No one ever outgrows the scriptures. The more one studies them, the wider and deeper they become. The Bible is a book which enables one to look into eternity. The best evidence of the inspiration of the Bible is to be found between its covers. No one will ever be a useful Christian unless one is a student of the Bible.
Then you need to study some more.

Matthew Henry said, “The Scriptures were not written to make us astronomers, but to make us saints.� It is no wonder that Paul urged Timothy to study to Scripture, “right dividing,� or handling aright, the word of truth, that he might be an approved workman before God.
Then why aren't you rightly dividing?

The Bible is the greatest book in the world. It is the most accessible, and in it one finds truth that can be found in no other book.
We all [in this thread] already know this, well, with the exception of Zakath.

The Bible acknowledges man’s faults, it is patient with man’s weaknesses, it is severe with man’s sins, and it is honest with his virtues and his hopes.
And? Where are you trying to go with this?

To own the Bible is to be rich. To know and to trust the Bible is to find life. To study the Bible is to be wise; to obey it, is to be strong.
When do you think the new covenant began, and why do you believe that Jesus taught the new covenant before it was in effect? He didn't. He taught the old covenant.

To know the Bible and to handle it aright is the greatest accomplishment within the reach of any person. One may know English, astronomy, literature, music, sociology and philosophy; but if one does not know the Bible, one has failed in the only subject that brings all things into their proper relationship and that enables one to know life at its best
You should really get to know this in your heart, instead of just in your head.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Originally posted by Zakath

IF one must be so busy to obtain it, it sounds like the "free gift" isn't really "free" at all...
Yes, it is free, since there are no restrictions upon the receiver. All you have to do is desire that freedom, and believe The Lord for it.

Money, floating on a breeze, by your feet, would be free, if you were to pick it up. Oh, but that would cost energy, so it wouldn't be free, right? Anyway, you couldn't have any, because you don't believe in money, in this example, anyway; so you'd deny it's existence, and just turn your head.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Originally posted by Nineveh

JAC,
"I wish you had an understanding of law and grace youself so that we could have an intelligent discussion of both."

The Law demands rituals, Grace does not.

I understand in order to be a frequent poster on Theology Online one needs to be a "know-it-all" and I sometimes tend to take on that air. I don't claim to know it all but this I know, God give grace to those who obey. It is evident throughout the scriptures. One needs to only read the 11th chapter of Hebrews to understand that fact. Someday you may just do that. Grace is God's gift through (obedient) faith. Faith only will not achieve grace. James made that clear in his epistle. Have a great rest of the day.


JustAChristian
 

JustAChristian

New member
Now, where were we?

Now, where were we?

Many people believe that as long as one accepts Christ as his or her personal savior, he or she will be saved. I ask the question, “What do they mean when one accepts Christ?� In Matthew 7:21-23, we see some people who accepted Jesus, but He never knew them. The Bible likens conversion to a marriage. In every marriage, both parties must consent to the marriage, right? Colossians 2:6 says we must accept Christ and Romans 15:7 says Christ must accept us. I ask you, "Where does the Bible make this statement? Where does it say that if one will only accept Christ as their personal savior apart from ones obedience to the Lord's commandments of faith, repentence, baptism for the remission of sins and enduring to the end of life then he or she will be saved? Hoping in the Lord to receive comments on this thread.

In Christ,
JustAChristian
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Originally posted by JustAChristian

Grace is God's gift through (obedient) faith. Faith only will not achieve grace.

According to Paul we are dead to the Law, he didn't say, "except for water rituals".

Grace is undeserved love. Obedience to the Law can not earn God's Grace. No, not even certain parts of the Law one feels compelled to cling to.

Where does it say that if one will only accept Christ as their personal savior apart from ones obedience to the Lord's commandments of faith, repentence, baptism for the remission of sins and enduring to the end of life then he or she will be saved?

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Accepting what Christ did for us is a personal heart issue. If you aren't saved when you ask someone to get you wet, you won't be saved afterwards. God put salvation outside of men's control over each other. He brought salvation straight to each man's own heart.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
It's not that Christ will refuse anyone, because they didn't merit the salvation; it is that they never sought Him for it with their whole heart. One can say anything, but be lying. The Lord knows who they are; and will tell them, "I never knew you." The Lord said that 'whosoever will' may come and drink of the water of life, freely; not 'only those who are good enough.'
 

BChristianK

New member
JustaChristian asked:
Many people believe that as long as one accepts Christ as his or her personal savior, he or she will be saved. I ask the question, “What do they mean when one accepts Christ?� In Matthew 7:21-23, we see some people who accepted Jesus, but He never knew them.
How do you come up with the idea that these folks accepted Jesus?
They called Him Lord, but that doesn’t mean their utterances were genuine. The scriptures are clear that there are those who honor Christ with their lips but their hearts are far from Him (Matthew 15:6).
The Bible likens conversion to a marriage.
Where does it do this? I know of many places where the church and Christ are likened unto a marriage relationship but I can’t think of any passages that equate conversion unto marriage. Can you please refresh my memory with these verse references please?
Colossians 2:6 says we must accept Christ and Romans 15:7 says Christ must accept us.
Notice the tense in Romans 15:7,
“…just as Christ accepted you.�
I ask you, "Where does the Bible make this statement? Where does it say that if one will only accept Christ as their personal savior apart from ones obedience to the Lord's commandments of faith, repentance, baptism for the remission of sins and enduring to the end of life then he or she will be saved?
I ask you, where in the process of accepting Christ as Savior, obedience to the Lord’s commandments of faith, repentance, baptism for the remission of sins and enduring to the end of life is one considered “accepted� by Christ (again, as Romans 15:7 shows accepted as past tense). I hope you at least think that they were accepted before completing their tenure of obedience to the end of life?
Next question. Was the thief on the cross just out of luck since He messed up the formula?
He repented, sure, he had some measure of faith but not the measure of faith prescribed by Paul in Romans 10:9, he sure wasn’t baptized. Now, I have heard a lot of folk say, “how do you know he wasn’t baptized.� I usually asked back, where can I find the in the bible that he was?� Furthermore, for those who allow themselves to wander off into conjecture about the baptismal status of the thief on the cross, is that the right order? Get baptized sometime before you have even heard of Jesus, then faith and repentance?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a huge fan of the Charles Finney prescribed sinners prayer after coming forward at the tail end of an evangelistic sermon. I am a Baptist, but I think the Baptists have put too little emphasis on baptism. Baptism, was, and in my view, still is, the biblically prescribed method of demonstrating a profession of faith. But I also don’t think that getting wet saves you.

Oh, I know that a lot of folks point to 1 Peter 3:21, they love part A but sorta rush through part B. Getting’ wet won’t save one soul, a pledge of a good conscious toward God will, and the biblically prescribed method of publicly proclaiming one’s good conscious toward God is baptism. But that doesn’t mean that one can’t have a good conscious toward God without getting wet.

Final question, lets say you talk to a guy on a plane, you tell him about Jesus. He sends you an email three days later telling you he has repented of his sin, now believes that Jesus is Savior and Lord and has risen from the dead just like the scriptures say, and he is going to get baptized at his local Church of Christ the very next Sunday. You hear that a tragic accident has occurred, while he was crossing the street on his way to church on Sunday, he was hit by a greyhound bus, killing him instantly.
Now, does your theology force you to conclude that he is now rotting in hell?

Grace and Peace
 

Ecumenicist

New member
Originally posted by Aimiel

Yes, it is free, since there are no restrictions upon the receiver. All you have to do is desire that freedom, and believe The Lord for it.

Money, floating on a breeze, by your feet, would be free, if you were to pick it up. Oh, but that would cost energy, so it wouldn't be free, right? Anyway, you couldn't have any, because you don't believe in money, in this example, anyway; so you'd deny it's existence, and just turn your head.

I got a free gallon of milk the other day at the grocery store!

All I had to do was reach into my pocket, pull out some money,
present it to the cashier, and I got the milk! Amazing! It was
free!

:kookoo:

djm
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Originally posted by BChristianK

I ask you, where in the process of accepting Christ as Savior, obedience to the Lord’s commandments of faith, repentance, baptism for the remission of sins and enduring to the end of life is one considered “accepted� by Christ (again, as Romans 15:7 shows accepted as past tense).
When they becaime willing: "And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." :thumb:
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Originally posted by Dave Miller

All I had to do was reach into my pocket, pull out some money,
present it to the cashier, and I got the milk!
Freely you have received, freely give.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Originally posted by Nineveh

According to Paul we are dead to the Law, he didn't say, "except for water rituals".

Grace is undeserved love. Obedience to the Law can not earn God's Grace. No, not even certain parts of the Law one feels compelled to cling to.



"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Accepting what Christ did for us is a personal heart issue. If you aren't saved when you ask someone to get you wet, you won't be saved afterwards. God put salvation outside of men's control over each other. He brought salvation straight to each man's own heart.


According to Paul we are dead to the Law, he didn't say, "except for water rituals".

Nineveh,

I haven't mentioned anywhere that we are to keep the Law of Moses. We are subject to the Law of Christ, the perfect law of liberty (Galatians 6:2; James 1:15). Salvation comes through "grace and truth" (John 1:17). Water baptism is a command from God (Acts 10:47; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16 et al). I am sorry that you don't see it that way. It is plain as day to the one who seeks the Lord on his terms.

Accepting what Christ did for us is a personal heart issue. If you aren't saved when you ask someone to get you wet, you won't be saved afterwards. God put salvation outside of men's control over each other. He brought salvation straight to each man's own heart.

I look at the "whole counsel of God" (Acts 20:27). Paul never preached against baptism for the remission of sins. In fact we see him telling us that he baptized many at Corinth and Ephesus. He too was immersed by Ananis at Antioch of Syria before he began his work for the Lord. Peter says that baptism saves (1 Peter 3:21). I will continue to look at the lives and teaching of these two and others on the subject that I find in the New Testament as a foundation of hope in Christ Jesus in the forgiveness of my sins. Can you do the same in your situation? I don't think so.

JustAChristian :angel:
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
JAC,
"I haven't mentioned anywhere that we are to keep the Law of Moses. "

Are you saying "baptism" was a new thing in Israel? When you start adding "and you must" to the finished work of the Cross, you are offering a "ritual" not salvation.

"seeks the Lord on his terms."

Funny, I did that very thing, and His Law convitced me. I was found guilty. At that moment, when my heart was changed and I begged God to forgive me, I was baptised into the Body of Christ. My heart was convicted, there was no H2O involved. This happened when I was reading Leviticus, not the NT.

"Peter says that baptism saves "

I don't think that is all Peter said.

You and I will never agree that "rituals" are needed to be saved. So, with that said, I look forward to reading your reply to BChristianK.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Originally posted by Nineveh

JAC,
"I haven't mentioned anywhere that we are to keep the Law of Moses. "

Are you saying "baptism" was a new thing in Israel? When you start adding "and you must" to the finished work of the Cross, you are offering a "ritual" not salvation.

"seeks the Lord on his terms."

Funny, I did that very thing, and His Law convitced me. I was found guilty. At that moment, when my heart was changed and I begged God to forgive me, I was baptised into the Body of Christ. My heart was convicted, there was no H2O involved. This happened when I was reading Leviticus, not the NT.

"Peter says that baptism saves "

I don't think that is all Peter said.

You and I will never agree that "rituals" are needed to be saved. So, with that said, I look forward to reading your reply to BChristianK.


Nineveh,

I don't think that is all Peter said.

It is obvious that you don't care what Peter said. If you can't have it "your way" you are not going to have it any way! I see nothing but the denominational world concept in your reasoning. I see no further reason to continue this discussion. If you are willing to accept the Bible on matters of grace, faith and obedience then let me know. I will be glad to continue in such a vein.

JustAChristian :angel:
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by Aimiel

Yes, it is free, since there are no restrictions upon the receiver. All you have to do is desire that freedom, and believe The Lord for it.
The first, most basic criterion, requirement, or necessity moves it from "free" to "not free".

"There Ain't No Such Thing as a Free Lunch."

Money, floating on a breeze, by your feet, would be free, if you were to pick it up. Oh, but that would cost energy, so it wouldn't be free, right? Anyway, you couldn't have any, because you don't believe in money, in this example, anyway; so you'd deny it's existence, and just turn your head.
Whether I pick it up or not, it's free if there are no strings attached to its aquisition. Your religion places not just strings, but steel cables, on your deity's allegedly "free" gift.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Originally posted by JustAChristian
I see no further reason to continue this discussion.

Good idea, wish I'd thought of it... "You and I will never agree that "rituals" are needed to be saved. So, with that said, I look forward to reading your reply to BChristianK." (Which you can find here.)
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Originally posted by Zakath

The first, most basic criterion, requirement, or necessity moves it from "free" to "not free".
Well, then 'free' doesn't mean free, it means a separate reality, in your twisted little mind.

Free means you don't have to 'buy' it, or give anything in exchange for it.
"There Ain't No Such Thing as a Free Lunch."
There is if your parents own the refrigerator that is full of food. You don't have to 'buy' lunch, or pay for it. Yes, parents with sense require that their children do chores, as a part of learning responsibility, but their food is always free (at least in most places I've ever heard of.
Whether I pick it up or not, it's free if there are no strings attached to its aquisition. Your religion places not just strings, but steel cables, on your deity's allegedly "free" gift.
If we had to jump through religious hoops to receive salvation, or wear certain types of clothing to be saved, or even any requirement at all, to belive God for salvation, then I could see your point. As it is, free means free. No charge. Gratis. Take one. What makes you say that it is not? Steel cables, indeed!!! :kookoo:
 
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