ECT What's New (Covenant)?

[Right Divider]

No, it is not as literal as you think.

:mock: The days of literalism are over?

That is why that writer said in 9:10, there would be no more dietary and ceremonial law, yet the law would be on people's hearts (believers), which is done today, since Pentecost, through the gift of the Spirit.

That lawfully required feast day for Israel was a fulfillment of prophecy related to .... wait for it..... ISRAEL!

You might read the posts closer and see what the actual issue is and see if you are answering it.

:french:

 

[Right Divider]

YOu are absolutely wrong. You are wrong textually; the originals favor the now. You are wrong in context because everywhere else in the book is saying it has been brought about in Christ, now. He has role played that he was in the past to say they pointed forward. all these things are spoken of as in the past or completed sense and verb tense all through Hebrews, because Christ has accomplished them, now crowned with glory and honor, 2:9.

I don't think you know Hebrews or the NT--what really happened, what is going on in it.

Which Christ is it that your worship?

The real one.

Col 2:16-17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: (2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

​

 

[Danoh]

why do you think 'spiritual' is a dirty word? It means to be the mature form of what began in infancy and childhood and juvenility. 'When I became a man, I put away childish ways.'

The Bible does not go back to infancy and glorify it all over again. Gal 4:1-7

The NT retroactively says that everything the OT was saying was also meant for the mature form of 'Israel' that coalesced in and through Christ, Heb 11's final verses. Ie, #2 in Rom 9:6, the 'us' of Rom 9:26, the 'all Israel' of Rom 11:26, the 'Israel of God' in Gal 6, the 'Jew indeed' of Rom 2, and NOT those who call themselves Jews in Rev 2,3 'but are not.'

That would be spiritually MATURE.

As with any word, the meaning of the word "spiritual" by itself will depend upon what is being talked about.

Acts 17: 11, 12.

 

[john w]

YOu are absolutely wrong. You are wrong textually; the originals favor the now.

You have "the originals?"


I will give you $100, 000 for them. But you most prove that they are "the originals."


Exposed again, as a charlatan, fraud, poser, used car salesman.

 

[Interplanner]

When these D'ists can tell me how Christ's going through the perfect tabernacle, and his entering the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, etc is future, then you can call Marx a Christian or whatever..

D'ism is a disaster on Hebrews, which is why they have changed so much of its meaning.

9:15: Now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins... to receive the promised enternal inheritance. The new covenant is now, since Christ, and it sets people free from the debt of sin. Just like the other passages say! What a coincidence!

The heavenly things were (past) purified by the infinite sacrifice of Christ. Otherwise as the text already says: Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world, which is exactly how D'ism sounds to me. I have no idea what Christ they are talking about.

 

[glorydaz]

When these D'ists can tell me how Christ's going through the perfect tabernacle, and his entering the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, etc is future, you can come fart in my face.

D'ism is a disaster on Hebrews, which is why they have changed so much of its meaning.

9:15: Now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins... to receive the promised enternal inheritance. The new covenant is now, since Christ, and it sets people free from the debt of sin. Just like the other passages say! What a coincidence!

The heavenly things were (past) purified by the infinite sacrifice of Christ. Otherwise as the text already says: Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world, which is exactly how D'ism sounds to me. I have no idea what Christ they are talking about.

You're gross....

 

[meshak]

Hey RD, go over Heb 9:10 until you understand. That will give me time to take some aspirin before reading you again.

Honestly, I don't know if some of you have ever absorbed the NT.

you are quoting andy and calling RD?


whats up?

 

[Interplanner]

You're gross....

OK, but is it any better to 'crucify the Son of God all over again' or any such confused change of the meaning of the letter or passage?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

You have "the originals?"


I will give you $100, 000 for them. But you most prove that they are "the originals."


Exposed again, as a charlatan, fraud, poser, used car salesman.

Remember, saint john....the days of originalism are over.

 

[john w]

Remember, saint john....the days of originalism are over.

Remember, Mayor....You and me towards this interloper ..."The Big Freeze!" Too much fracturization!

 

[Right Divider]

Remember, Mayor....You and me towards this interloper ..."The Big Freeze!" Too much fracturization!

You guys use too much factualization!

 

[Interplanner]

:mock: The days of literalism are over?


That lawfully required feast day for Israel was a fulfillment of prophecy related to .... wait for it..... ISRAEL!


:french:

Gee I wonder if that is why Christ is called our Passover and why Paul said let us eat the feast! Oh, dang, there's that dirty word spiritual again. It's just awful where spiritual truth and maturation take you!

 

[Right Divider]

Gee I wonder if that is why Christ is called our Passover and why Paul said let us eat the feast!

Pentecost comes long after Passover.

Paul uses Passover as an analogy and not as a lawfully required observance.

Why does a "real writer and grammar scholar" not understand figures of speech?

Oh, dang, there's that dirty word spiritual again. It's just awful where spiritual truth and maturation take you!

Paul uses many things, including the old testament, as spiritual examples and not as a silent cancellation of God's promises to His people that He chose.

 

[Interplanner]

Pentecost comes long after Passover.

Paul uses Passover as an analogy and not as a lawfully required observance.

Why does a "real writer and grammar scholar" not understand figures of speech?


Paul uses many things, including the old testament, as spiritual examples and not as a silent cancellation of God's promises to His people that He chose.

It's not lawfully required because it was fulfilled in Christ! You're a hoot.

Silent cancellation? Express! Acts 3's extirpation. Lk 21's fulfillment of all the wrath decreed. I Th 2's the full wrath of God has come. Hebrews numerous cancellations and replacements of the old covenant, replaced by the glorious vision of 12:22+, Rom 11 saying the mercy of God promised in the past is now in Christ, and the new covenant is enjoyed now , Acts 13 saying what was promised to the fathers are fulfilled in the resurrection.

The whole redemptive enterprise of God was to result in a mission to the nations, which is
now fully underway in Christ. There is no more concern about the land as such, or the race as such, or any race as such. All lands, all races to be brought into Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

It's not lawfully required because it was fulfilled in Christ! You're a hoot.

Feel free to prove that. When was the day of atonement fulfilled?

Silent cancellation? Express! Acts 3's extirpation. Lk 21's fulfillment of all the wrath decreed. I Th 2's the full wrath of God has come. Hebrews numerous cancellations and replacements of the old covenant, replaced by the glorious vision of 12:22+, Rom 11 saying the mercy of God promised in the past is now in Christ, and the new covenant is enjoyed now , Acts 13 saying what was promised to the fathers are fulfilled in the resurrection.

Fee free to show us where the land promise was cancelled. You've been asked that before, but all what we heard was crickets.

The whole redemptive enterprise of God was to result in a mission to the nations, which is
now fully underway in Christ. There is no more concern about the land as such, or the race as such, or any race as such. All lands, all races to be brought into Christ.

You clearly ignore 95% of scripture.

Rev 21:12-14 (KJV)​

(21:12) And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (21:13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (21:14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. ​

Why do the gates of the new Jerusalem have the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel upon it?
Why do the foundations of the new Jerusalem have the names of the twelve apostles upon it?

Where is Paul?

 

[Interplanner]

Those 6 passages do not continue the land promise. That's the whole point. When something is fulfilled, you don't look further. You are dishonest about what you are reading. You are missing the whole point of the NT, not some obscure deduction about 'where is Paul in Rev 21'?

I'm talking about the throb, the pulse, the passion of the NT, about which you are dead.

 

[drbrumley]

why do you think 'spiritual' is a dirty word?

I dont....it's when one can't take at face value the plain reading of the scriptures and has to spiritualize them to mean what you want them to mean that gets me.

 

[Interplanner]

I dont....it's when one can't take at face value the plain reading of the scriptures and has to spiritualize them to mean what you want them to mean that gets me.

Glad to see new folks in the room!

But there is a warning that the OT "at face value" are misunderstood, are veiled. That is why we needed Christ to render them, and he taught the apostles 40 days after the resurrection, and why there are 2500 uses of the OT in the NT to serve as a template as to what is going on. If Christ himself is the temple, the living temple, but the language about it actually uses OT expressions, then he is meant, not a granite and marble structure sometime in Judea.

This is why we cannot go down the road with the producer of the Pureflix film on archeology who thought he had found Isaiahs (granite) 'wall of salvation' and 'gate of praise' in Jerusalem in the 60s.

The 'Israel of God' the spiritual one is the one that follows the rule of the end of Gal 6: there is neither circ nor uncirc, but a new creation. That is spiritual. Spiritual is not 'a language scandal.' It is to render a truth in its mature form in Christ, now that Christ has appeared, relative to the child-trainer Judaism.

 

[Right Divider]

The 'Israel of God' the spiritual one is the one that follows the rule of the end of Gal 6: there is neither circ nor uncirc, but a new creation. That is spiritual. Spiritual is not 'a language scandal.' It is to render a truth in its mature form in Christ, now that Christ has appeared, relative to the child-trainer Judaism.

Gal 6:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:16) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
​

I guess that you're a "real writer" but not a "real reader".

 

[Interplanner]

Gal 6:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:16) And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
​

I guess that you're a "real writer" but not a "real reader".

You're trying to create 2 groups out of it, but there aren't. Not in Paul's "one new man." But I guess you don't read that. Why would a race as such have anything in common with the Christian community that you are part of as a believer? What if they are Marxist? Atheist? Homosexual? Murderers?

I know you hate grammar, but 'kai' is sometimes a reinforcement. That's why many of the translations have the English 'even upon...' because it can reinforce the first of two thoughts. But you have to have several years in Greek grammar to see this in action. Cp TEV, NIV.

Is that all you have for 2 disparate groups? No clear NT passages to validate it?