What will pre-tribber rapture believers do.

[Clete]

I am sure it is.

It is also interesting to see scientists, doctors, lawyers, politicians, philosophers,etc do the same thing

Not to mention, physicists, astronomers, climatologists, biologist and every other form of scientist you can name.

I love that you put philosophers on your list. Atheists very often display, accept and defend the most convolutedly irrational philosophical ideas that have ever entered the mind of man. (e.g. Stalin, Marx, Nietzsche, etc.).

 

[oatmeal]

Not to mention, physicists, astronomers, climatologists, biologist and every other form of scientist you can name.

I love that you put philosophers on your list. Atheists very often display, accept and defend the most convolutedly irrational philosophical ideas that have ever entered the mind of man. (e.g. Stalin, Marx, Nietzsche, etc.).

Learning being a process, it is no surprise that conflicts exist in all fields of learning.

 

[Clete]

Learning being a process, it is no surprise that conflicts exist in all fields of learning.

This is indeed true but it would seem to apply, at least primarily, to novices.

Stalin, Marx & Nietzsche weren't novices nor were they stupid. They were evil and I think intentionally so. They hated not only their own lives but life itself and their philosophies, to the extent to which they are practiced, achieve that which they hold as their highest standard - the negation of the mind and therefore, since the mind is man's primary means of survival, the negation of human life.

Clete

 

[Right Divider]

The word "rapture" itself is not in scripture, but harpagesometha, which means seize, catch (up, away), pluck, pull, or take (by force), is the word used translated "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

That is why I never refer to it as "the rapture", but instead "the catching away".

 

[Clete]

ah, but there is a difference. scientists, doctors etc are not dealing with a text allegedly provided by an all-knowing loving deity, one would think that book would be a little more straight forward and easy for all to understand.
Instead you get different basic interpretations and threads like this one.

Why would one think that?

Not that the bible isn't straightforward and easy to understand. It's just that men's heads are thicker than the Bible is.

But my question stands. Why would one think that a book dealing with topics as important and as far reaching as the Bible be entirely "easy to understand"?

Clete

 

[Right Divider]

Interesting to watch Christians dispute the meaning of their Holy Book.

Interesting to see atheists dispute the meaning of anything.

 

[oatmeal]

This is indeed true but it would seem to apply, at least primarily, to novices.

Stalin, Marx & Nietzsche weren't novices nor were they stupid. They were evil and I think intentionally so. They hated not only their own lives but life itself and their philosophies, to the extent to which they are practiced, achieve that which they hold as their highest standard - the negation of the mind and therefore, since the mind is man's primary means of survival, the negation of human life.

Clete

No they were not novices nor were they stupid. Proverbs and Psalms and other places in scripture make it clear that people will intentionally do, and plan evil.

Stalin did not argue with people, he had them murdered.

The Pharisees, and others, who diametrically opposed Jesus Christ plotted to destroy him. That was intentional.

People that evil are not going to argue politics or science or religion.

They eliminate the opposition. That is one way to win an argument.

 

[oatmeal]

ah, but there is a difference. scientists, doctors etc are not dealing with a text allegedly provided by an all-knowing loving deity, one would think that book would be a little more straight forward and easy for all to understand.
Instead you get different basic interpretations and threads like this one.

Sorry, I did not see your post, but Pops did a good job of answering it.

God's word, as Pops said is straightforward and simple to understand for the most part, however, God's word not only appeals to the simple but to the wise and learned in the scriptures.

Just like any avenue of learning, the things obvious at face value and without deeper searching, are enough for some. But as Pops pointed out, man's head is thicker than the Bible.

Or I might say, man's ego tends to exalt itself over the God who created the heaven and the earth.

It takes humility and meekness to learn. As Paul stated, become fools that you may become wise, in other words, don't think you know it all, realize that God is a lot smarter than all human intellect put together, no one is going to fool God, so why try?

1 Corinthians 3:18-19

Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

It takes humility to realize we lack wisdom, but God is willing to impart wisdom to those who ask for it. James 1:5-8

 

[Clete]

No they were not novices nor were they stupid. Proverbs and Psalms and other places in scripture make it clear that people will intentionally do, and plan evil.

Stalin did not argue with people, he had them murdered.

The Pharisees, and others, who diametrically opposed Jesus Christ plotted to destroy him. That was intentional.

People that evil are not going to argue politics or science or religion.

They eliminate the opposition. That is one way to win an argument.

The end of a gun (or point of a sword) is always the left's (i.e. evil's) final argument.

This is because their creed is anti-reason, anti- life (i.e. death). That's what it preaches, that's what it defends, that's what it aspires too and that's all it can achieve.

Want to know why it's a Burney Sanders supporter who attempts to assassinate whole groups of what he considers his political opponents (even if they aren't)?
Want to know why it's leftists who wail against fascism on college campuses and aren't intelligent enough to understand they're the fascists and are practicing fascism?
It is because they know that they cannot win in the arena in the arena of ideas. Indeed, they do not want to win in that arena. That arena is the realm of the mind, which is precisely the thing they are at war with.

Clete

P.S. I know I'm not telling you these things because I think you need to be educated. I suspect you already understand most if not all of this. I'm just taking the opportunity to put it out there for the peanut gallery. It's an awesome topic of discussion.

 

[Nick M]

That is why I never refer to it as "the rapture", but instead "the catching away".

Bob Hill says "departure" based on upon 2 Thessalonians 2. Not "falling away". Because apostasy of the church means to leave it. Muslims are stoned to death or beheaded for leaving the church.

 

[genuineoriginal]

What will pre-tribber rapture believers do, when they find themselves still here with the rest of us after the mark of the beast is in force.

Time is getting short now that the western powers are sure to overtake all of the middle east and make Jerusalem an international city for all faiths and start rebuilding the temple, making people believe the Kingdom of God has come, and an amazing leader to emerge, who hates fundamentalists.

LA

The vast majority of Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers will not recognize the mark of the beast when it is in effect.
A small percent of Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers will recognize the mark of the beast and then reject that recognition because it does not fit their eschatology.
A tiny few Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers will recognize the mark of the beast and reject their eschatology.

 

[genuineoriginal]

1 Thes 4:13-18 we shall be with the Lord, for we are saved from the wrath to come Romans 5:9, 1Thes 1:10. We enjoy being in the presence of the lord.

The mark of the beast (Revelation 13:17) happens 3-1/2 years (Revelation 13:5) prior to the wrath (Revelation 15:1).
During that time the beast is defeating most Christians (saints).

Revelation 13:7 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.​

But, there are Christians that will not be defeated.

Revelation 12:11 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Calvinists have no viable prophetic understanding so they can't even converse on the subject. Prophecy is all symbolic to them or already fulfilled in the Roman times with Nero. Talk about stupid beliefs!

You bare false witness against the Eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Calvinists are neither the Eternal Father, the Son, nor the Holy Spirit.
Speaking about the false beliefs of Calvinists is not false witness against the Eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:6 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

By rapture I am assuming you mean the events of I Thessalonians 4:13-18 and the verses that tell us we are saved from the wrath to come.

the word "rapture", is it found in scripture?

It is in the Latin Vulgate.

 

[Right Divider]

The vast majority of Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers will not recognize the mark of the beast when it is in effect.
A small percent of Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers will recognize the mark of the beast and then reject that recognition because it does not fit their eschatology.
A tiny few Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers will recognize the mark of the beast and reject their eschatology.

:rotfl:

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The vast majority of Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers will not recognize the mark of the beast when it is in effect.
A small percent of Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers will recognize the mark of the beast and then reject that recognition because it does not fit their eschatology.
A tiny few Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers will recognize the mark of the beast and reject their eschatology.

Exactly.

LA

 

[oatmeal]

The mark of the beast (Revelation 13:17) happens 3-1/2 years (Revelation 13:5) prior to the wrath (Revelation 15:1).
During that time the beast is defeating most Christians (saints).

Revelation 13:7 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.​

But, there are Christians that will not be defeated.

Revelation 12:11 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.​

As you correctly point out, there will be saints/believers in the events of the book of Revelation, but they will not be Christians.

There will not be any Christians on the earth at that time, we will have left when God brings I Thessalonians 4:13-18 to pass.

Those who did not choose to do Romans 10:9-10 will have to endure the events described in Rev, in the gospels and in other OT books.

Christians will have been gathered together unto him.

I Thessalonians 5 speaks of the day of Christ, when they shall say "peace and safety" but then sudden destruction will come upon them.

The information in I Thessalonians 4 and 5 is chronological. The day of Christ comes after the gathering together of 4:13-18

"Wherefore comfort one another with these words"

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

What will pre-tribber rapture believers do, when they find themselves still here with the rest of us after the mark of the beast is in force.

Time is getting short now that the western powers are sure to overtake all of the middle east and make Jerusalem an international city for all faiths and start rebuilding the temple, making people believe the Kingdom of God has come, and an amazing leader to emerge, who hates fundamentalists.

LA

Speculation and nonsense. The GOoD Shepherd gives wisdom to those who call on HIM. No matter the circumstances, HE leads and guides.

As far as your anti Semite dribble, I'm sure you and the beast would be besties.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Exactly.

LA

Um, the ancient eastern cells like the Coptics handled it well. Ps, they didn't convert under sword because they knew HE is GOD and not just a man.

You judge Gods people and exalt yourself in a self righteous way, every OP you make.

Get real! You are foolish to the 100's of thousands dying now as you type here.

Of all the OP's you've made, this is the most disgusting!

 

[Truster]

Calvinists are neither the Eternal Father, the Son, nor the Holy Spirit.
Speaking about the false beliefs of Calvinists is not false witness against the Eternal Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:6 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.​

I was speaking of the spirit by which he speaks and not the content of his post.