ECT WHAT JOHN 3:16 REALLY MEANS TO US TODAY !!
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
drbrumley
Well-known member
dodge
New member
lol, you don't have one. No matter how hard you try you cannot make the birth of Jesus just apply to Israel. Well by destroying the context of all of scripture I suppose you can, and that is pretty much what MAD does.
dodge
New member
Nope, I guess you have relegated John 3:16 to the trash bin of MAD.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Ok, if you didn't miss it, then you can quote what he says....
:yawn: Glad we have your opinion...
drbrumley
Well-known member
Talk about taking what MAD believes out of context....you take the cake bro.
dodge
New member
MAD says repentance is for Israel;however, Paul says it is for the B.O.C. Yep MAD takes scripture out of context to stay in man made error.
Acts 20:21
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul said repent MAD says repentance is for Israel I will stay with what Paul taught.
dodge
New member
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Which Jesus did and after Israel was set aside for a time the gospel was opened to everyone !
Somehow in the deception of MAD "world" does not mean world (John 3:16), "repentance toward God" does not mean repentance (Acts20:21) ,and "whosoever " does not mean whosoever (John 3:16).
Your welcome.
Lon
Well-known member
I 'think' most MAD believe "Kingdom of God" is a kingdom offer, meaning Jewish promise and their Covenant fulfillment. I'm okay with them not agreeing with you or me. It isn't too big of a deal and really deals with God's chosen people at that point. It may affect our gentile politics with them, but I don't see it affecting much else.
That said, I agree with you, we must have a new nature to follow Christ: 1 Corinthians 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:17. MAD and Dispensationalists agree on that point, they just don't think John 3 is addressed to them or you and I. We disagree. Big deal? No, not when they agree with 2 Corinthians 5:17 and Ephesians 2:10 (my opinion). In Him -Lon
Lon
Well-known member
As I said, we'd disagree on 'when.' The scripture uses the word 'dispensation' but just as 'covenant' is read differently, so too is 'dispensation' by us. For us, it means 'event.' We do see it as different, but not as different as dispensationalists see it.
I don't know who the first saved people were. In the Garden, there is a promise of crushing the serpents head. In life, we have adversity with snakes, but this was talking about Satan, and only the Lord Jesus Christ would crush his head. it was thus a promise of redemption. All who trusted God's promise would be saved. I believe all people who died, before Christ, went to a place that was divided between Hades and Paradise Luke 16:19-31 When the Lord Jesus Christ preached to spirits in prison, 1 Peter 3:19 it was Paradise Luke 23:43
Then Matthew 27:50-54 So, that would be the first day that men were saved, the first day of the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work, if that is your meaning by saved. You could of course insist the day they first believed was the day of their Salvation. I would not argue that.
I hope some of this helps and serves you. -Lon
Hi and the Greek word OIKONOMIS is a compound word !!
OIKOS means HOUSE !!
NOMOS means LAW !!
So OIKONOMIA / DISPENSATION means HOUSE LAW , so what are these Law mean ??
It is obviously Paul as Gal 1:15 !!
You have not clearly said how a person in a COVENANT is saved !!
You said you are a COVENANT believer so how did God save you as you believe in COVENANTS , what is it ??
I know that we disagree , YET , I want to know how you are thinking about what salvation is to you !!
I have asked many on this forum am I have not YET even had a clear answer !!
Are you one of them too ?
If you want to stop me asking you about salvation , just say I can not answer and I will stop asking !!
dan p
Lon
Well-known member
You'll have to explain what you are saying.1) If I am unclear it isn't for lack of trying. I am fallible, however. Communication takes two people.
2) Even if I haven't made it clear, I think Galatians 3 does, whether I am successful in my explanation of Paul to you or not.
Well, try and think of it changing the word: "How did a dispensation save you?" Answer: It didn't. The Lord Jesus Christ saves.
If that makes sense to you, this would be my short answer. A Covenant is simply the promise of Jesus Christ: Jesus Christ saves (same as with Dispensationalism).
I'm not bothered at all Dan. I will keep trying. In a nutshell, we'd both say that neither Covenant nor Dispensational are 'what' saves us. It is rather what is accomplished during or by these terms, that we are saved in Christ and His work. Salvation is by Christ alone. Acts 4:12
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, dodge is zealous, emotional, and illogical.
dodge
New member
lol, However "dodge" understands what "world" (John 3:16), "whosoever" ( John 3:16 ), and "repentance toward God "means (Acts 20:21), and I do not have to change the context of the meaning of those words and cram them into what they do not mean to believe what I believe.
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Nang
TOL Subscriber
Spoken with righteous zeal, sound emotion, and good logic.
Dodge is just swell in my book! :up:
1) If I am unclear it isn't for lack of trying. I am fallible, however. Communication takes two people.
2) Even if I haven't made it clear, I think Galatians 3 does, whether I am successful in my explanation of Paul to you or not.
Well, try and think of it changing the word: "How did a dispensation save you?" Answer: It didn't. The Lord Jesus Christ saves.
If that makes sense to you, this would be my short answer. A Covenant is simply the promise of Jesus Christ: Jesus Christ saves (same as with Dispensationalism).
I'm not bothered at all Dan. I will keep trying. In a nutshell, we'd both say that neither Covenant nor Dispensational are 'what' saves us. It is rather what is accomplished during or by these terms, that we are saved in Christ and His work. Salvation is by Christ alone. Acts 4:12
Hi and it is the message of the Revelation of the MYSTERY that saves , in Rom 16:25 and 26 !!
If you knew what the PATTERN of 1 Tim 1:16 is , you could explain it to me !!
#1 , Some say the John 3:5 saves , and is it the CONTEXT for today ??
#2 , And many say that Acts 2:38 is what saves !!
#3 Sopme believe BAPTISM saves !!
#4 And some like you say a COVENANT saves them , and give a long WINDED answer that is very FOGGY at best !!
#5 And then there is me and PAUL , and this is the PATTERN that you will never see !!
#6 First is how wemsee 1 Cor 2:14 ?
#7 Then there is how Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 and the KEY word is LORD , and its meaning ?
#8 The next important verse is 1 Cor 12:3 and its 4 verbs , where 3 are in the Greek PRESENT TENSE !!
#9 The last verb in 1 Cor 12:3 is the KEY verb SAY which is in the AORIST TENSE !
#10 The next , is Acts 16:14 !!
#13 The next is Rom 10:9 !!
That is my explanation of the Pattern used by the Holy Spirit !!
I have done these explanation , many times !!
Now explain how salvation comes about under a COVENANT and where are the verses that explain your position ??
dan p
drbrumley
Well-known member
Of course he is :down: